NCBA : two championships?

[JenKozy]

Okay. So what has happend? We are talking about the smaller bands winning in the 80's and the 90's. What changed? Why are we not seeing these size bands breaking into the 90+ scores like the bands with 100+ kids? Take a look at the smaller classes. How many schools below class A have broken a 90???

The trend, IMHO, is that bigger is better. Quantity over quality. Even though we might think smaller bands are deserving of these scores, but that's not being reflected in the actual handing out of scores!

[ZJH]

It's not a direct correlation between size and score. You are neglecting the possibility that maybe these smaller bands don't have the same resources or quality of education that the larger bands might have, thus making their scores subsequently higher. It's not necessarily a prejudice against the smaller bands. There are big bands that don't even come close to breaking 90, so it obviously isn't quantity over quality.

[JCYS]

Okay. So what has happend? We are talking about the smaller bands winning in the 80's and the 90's. What changed? Why are we not seeing these size bands breaking into the 90+ scores like the bands with 100+ kids? Take a look at the smaller classes. How many schools below class A have broken a 90???

The trend, IMHO, is that bigger is better. Quantity over quality. Even though we might think smaller bands are deserving of these scores, but that's not being reflected in the actual handing out of scores!

I almost replied to this the other day, but left it alone. I think this is really a mistaken idea that is being put forth. First of all, the SMALL bands did NOT win all the stuff like you are being told.

With all do respect, in the 1980s and 90's a 65 piece band was NOT a small band. In those days 80-90 kids (like Merced) was a huge band.
During Chowchilla's dominant era, they were about 65-70 musicians, as I remember. In that same era, Fairfield was in the 80's, and when I got to LPO in 1994, the "GIANT" bands were Lincoln (with 80 some kids) and Foothill (about the same size). The only band well over 100 was Fairfield.


When LPO won music sweeps at Fairfield in 1995, and Vallejo won Sweeps, we were both about 65 piece bands, which was NOT small by the standards of those days.

In those days a 30 piece band was more common than not. It was a tough times for band programs all over.

I absolutely reject the idea that high scores are being handed out based on size UNLESS you mean that it is easier to get a fuller, well balanced sound with a big band. Having taught small bands, I can tell you its tough to get a 40 piece band to sound good. No, its not impossible, we can all name instances of 40 piece bands that were GREAT...but those are isolated examples...not the norm. Most 30-40 piece bands struggle to get many of the fundamentals working. In his book on band, McBeth says "Intonation is 3/4 balance." That tends to put small bands at a disadvantage right off. Because many small bands are not just small, they have fundamental instrumentation problems.

And you would think marching would be far easier to score well with a smaller band, but watch the videotapes. Indiviudal technique and block alignment are many times worse as a percentage of the band block in some smaller bands.

Showmanship is 2/3 based on guard, and that varies with small bands just as much as big bands.

So....no, I really disagree. If large bands are getting better scores than small bands it is because they are playing better, marching better, etc.
I can name some large bands right now that are not scoring any better than bands of 50.

But I do agree it IS easier to produce a good band with a larger number of kids, to deny that would fly in the face of reality.

JCYS

[crickett]

My band is small, my school is small. My band scores well. We generally score in the 90's. I convince kids to change instruments to balance the sound. Size is not everything.


IMHO, folks complain about small band instead of dealing with and teaching who you have.

You know the old saying, when you get lemons make lemonaide.

[Hostrauser]

In his book on band, McBeth says "Intonation is 3/4 balance." That tends to put small bands at a disadvantage right off. Because many small bands are not just small, they have fundamental instrumentation problems.

My band is small, my school is small. My band scores well. We generally score in the 90's. I convince kids to change instruments to balance the sound. Size is not everything.

Can every current and future band director PLEASE memorize these two statements?

I can't even count the number of times I've seen bands with 20-30 woodwinds, six to eight trumpets, one baritone and no trombones or tuba. Doesn't matter how good your players are in that situation, your band isn't going to sound very good because you're killing yourself with the instrumentation.

[JCYS]

Two instances that come to mind...

Rowland Nielson often tells the story of Joe Foster's Tracy HS Band of about 40 kids playing HM Jollies so well the music "literally jumped off the page." This was the opinion of Mr. Nielson AND Benton Minor who were judging music at the time. I did not get the pleasure of seeing that band.

What comes to my mind is the Helix HS Band at the last All Western Band Review in 1983 under Rich Almanza, marching 42 kids, playing Eagle Squadron so well that out of, what, like 80+ bands, they scored the 4th or 5th highest score in the review, if my memory serves me? Beating out huge powerhouses like Katella and Mater Dei, etc.

BUT...as I stated, I saw that band from Helix and they had almost perfect instrumentation...5 tubas, 5 or so trombones, etc. And of course, those kids were all playing like crazy, and the individual execution and block marching from that band was excellent too.

So, it CAN be done with a small band, but it is more difficult.

JCYS

[TCowboy23]

At the 1982 Fairfield Band Review, which was in the Spring, my Chowchilla Redskin Marching band not only won the Grand Sweepstakes coming out of little ol' Class D. but our percussion section took 1st with a whopping 97.5. Our band director, Larry Hobson, was more stoked about our percussion score than the band winning Sweepstakes.

I was in this band! And, you're right...Mr. Hobson was much more excited about the percussion win. Do you have any old photos/videos? Love to hear from you...
Chris

[JRZ]

Thank you Hostrauser for the mention!

A couple of things...
1. I'm currently at Tokay HS in Lodi, Ca. (2016 - present)
2. Tokay won a sweepstakes award at the Lincoln Band Review in 2021 with a score of 90.5, all I had was 38 musicians and 14 guard.
3. As most of my former students have heard me say and know, some of which are on WOP, "You don't have to be big, but you've GOT to be good".

So a small band CAN score well.