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 Post subject: Foothill high school's 'Bolero' show = San Jose Raiders?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:49 pm 
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Hey, has anyone seen Foothill high school's Bolero winterguard show at an NCBA competition?

I don't know if anyone else would know this, but their show is pretty much a copy of San Jose Raiders World Guard 1993 when they did Bolero.

I didn't believe it at first, but my friend showed me a Fans Favorite WGI championship tape, and it's true. Their drill is the same and even some equipment work is similar. you can buy the tape if you want to see for yourself. http://store.yahoo.com/wgishop/20.html

I mean, some things are gonna be similar if you do the same music - but there are too many things that are EXACTLY the same. hmmmm


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:50 am 
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I've yet to see Foothill's show, and I didn't see the Raider's '93 show. So I cannot clarify whether or not the shows are the same.

But I do believe that if for some reason the shows are the same, or extremely similar in almost every way, there should be some rule for it. If a group performs another groups show then they can't take credit for it. I think they should be disqualified. I know a lot of groups use the same music, but same drill and work is outrageous. I hope for Foothill's reputation that this rumor is false.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:41 pm 
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it could also be possible that Foothill's staff includes someone that marched that year and has a right to do this...i don't know if that's even likely, but it seems like a possibilty since i've seen an something of this same situation...so it's possible :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:56 pm 
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Raiders '93 had everyone spinning sabre the whole show. There was no flag feature or rifle line at all. It was all sabre all the time. Does Foothill have everyone marching all sabre? I don't see how they could do the same drill with more than one peice of equipment. Even if the show looks similar, I'm sure it has to have some unique aspects to it. I really doubt someone would steal an IW gold medalling show and try to call it their own... Just some thoughts...


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 Post subject: Foothill high school's bolero = San Jose Raiders 1993
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:31 pm 
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Yeah,

San Jose Raiders was on all sabre for their bolero version, and foothill is not. but there are too many things the same with drill.

I watched the video again and there are WAY too many things with drill that are the same between raiders and foothill.

Towards the end of foothill's show, they form 2 diagonal lines with a soloist at the front...then they expand out across the floor. Raiders? They did the exact same thing. and there's several other things that are really similar or copied exactly

it's like someone watched the video and then copied it straight from it


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 Post subject: Does it matter?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:30 pm 
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Honestly, I don't think it does matter, because it's not what you perform, but how you perform it. What’s the difference if someone uses the same exact music as someone else, if they use the same drill, the same equipment, or even the same facial expressions? The bottom line is how well is it being executed, how well does it emulate the music, and what effect the combined elements have one the audience. Besides, we are talking about a show that was done 11 years ago! Who cares if they resurrect some dusty old routine? The big question is, will they be able to make it shine as it once did?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:33 pm 
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Who cares if they resurrect some dusty old routine....
Umm that dusty old routine was a gold medaling year!!! I'm sure this Foothill guard couldn't even begin to pull off what they (my instructors at Raiders) did!!! I mean it's like someone redoing Summertimez (Blue Devils World) with swing flags... somethings just can't be touched.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:58 pm 
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Whoa there sparky... I think you missed my point. First of all, Of course it was a Gold Medal show... it better be if someone is copying it, who's gonna go out and copy a 5th place show? Secondly, it was 11 years ago... do you think half the audience knows what raiders did in 1993? They weren't even out of elementary school. Lastly, imitation is the highest form of flattery. If foothill can use a guard routine all the way back from 1993 and win with it, then the raiders should be that much prouder to have produced a show which had withstood the test of time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:58 am 
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Okay,

I don't think I would call any show from the Raiders' gold medal dynasty dusty, even if it was Romeo and Juliet from 1990... While the audience might not recognize it, I'm sure plenty of instructors and judges do.

But on the subject of foothill, if they want to do bolero, go for it. If they have some similarities, oh well, maybe it's a tribute of some sort. But unless they are marching 30 kids on all sabre on a pink floor with pink flats and wearing white tops with black leggings, I don't think they are stealing the same show. And even if anyone thinks they are, the kids are still putting in the man hours to learn their show. Even if it has been done before, these kids have never done it and it would still take just as much time and effort for them to learn as any other show.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:33 pm 
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Bolero's pretty famous guys, it might be a coincidence.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:43 pm 
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I saw Foothill's show the last couple of weekends and a friend of mine told me that the show was similar to Raiders and Mt. Diablo(both using that song and similar show ideas I guess). I have to disagree with the it doesn't matter if they copy a show. As someone who has instructed if I saw a show that I wrote being performed by a different guard I would not think, oh it was a couple of years ago. That doesn't matter, yeah the guard is working hard and props to them, and there might be more differences then people are seeing, but its not right to just take someone else's routine. Especially if they won a world medal for it. I just don't get that logic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:25 pm 
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...they say immitation is the highest form of flattering... :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:48 am 
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I have to disagree with the whole idea of copying someone's show - drill, equipment work, movement work, etc.

As a designer there are HOURS and HOURS that go into creating my program. Changes and additions and a creative process that lasts from before the members get to rehearsals at the beginning of the season and follow through to championships. Designing a program is difficult, challenging and sometimes a very personal process. For someone to be lazy and unmotivated enough to create their own porgram is an insult to me.

I think it shows laziness and nothing else.

I have no qualms about taking the same music and making it YOUR OWN, that happens all the time. But to copy an entire program of drill - did the drill designer say you could use his/her product? What about those who make a living off of designing drill or writing work?

And as a designer I like to have some control over my work so that I ensure that the work that I do as a designer is best represented in the community - if it's great I WANT CREDIT! If it's terrible- I WANT THE CREDIT! This helps to keep me a strong designer!

Perhaps now as designers we need to look at copywriting our work to avoid half-ass programs from STEALING our work off a video where they get only half of the effect and process. :evil: :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:57 am 
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And in some circles (like many of the arts circles) they say that immitation is stealing and the biggest way to a law-suit.

Maybe I need to start copywriting my work from now on, and encourage my friends to do the same.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:14 pm 
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wow... thats really... um... interesting lol i dont think any of the guard at our school has any idea of any coincedences between their bolero show and a raiders show. at least the guard members ive talked to have no effing idea what the raiders show even looked like. hmm. i dunno. thats really weird though.

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