NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

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snareguy83
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NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by snareguy83 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:18 am

from NCBA drumlines with samplers on the street....
http://youtu.be/XEI2Bthrus4

to groups spinning on their knees
http://youtu.be/9wauDR26lpk

to groups marching an electric bass and/or guitar
http://youtu.be/NNzELFDQQTg

to groups playing bass drums upside down,
http://youtu.be/we8kb-1Tugc

street percussion is heading in a new direction. But the question needs to be asked: Is some of this necessary? Is some of this even allowed? I think some of the stuff groups do now a days is cool, but some of it is just a liiiiittle too much in my opinion. How does everyone else feel about some of this stuff??

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by factorydrummer » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:17 am

I don't really have an opinion on the samplers or the guitars, but honestly, those visuals that 'push the envelope' make the show exciting. Do you hear how wowed the crowd is after the show with the upside down basses? It isn't about just performing for the judge- it's about performing to the crowd, for your band, and for yourself. Both the crowd and the judge loved that show, but you can bet they wouldn't have been half as excited if they just marched in a straight line that entire time. So, with respect, it is necessary.
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Brad » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:48 am

I think most of that is OK (thoug i might have problems with cymbal players stand on the snares for just many reasons) But here's the thing, much of the stuff does not receive credit since there is only one judge, and he's doing mostly just the performance. I don't believe the sheet gives much credit for the "drill."
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Psalm 56 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:02 am

I would agree with "standing on the equipment" is questionable. "Standing on the equipment" is a sign of disrespect for the equipment as well as possibly injuring the students (for really no good/valid reason - MY OPINION. You disagree with my opinion doesn't mean my opinion is wrong or invalid) shows I am getting old. I do think that the "winterpercussion" on the street is pushing the envelope. Can't we just leave those cool 'antics' for the "winterpercussion" competition?!?! All it is going to take is someone getting hurt and it will stink for the rest of us. In this litigious world...have "fun" with that lawsuit from the "caring" parent.

The question to ask yourself is: WHY DO THE 'STUFF' ON THE STREET WHEN IN JANUARY/FEBRUARY/MARCH we will all be seeing the 're-tread' of what you did in October/November??!! Save it.

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by SherlocK » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:45 am

Psalm 56 wrote:I would agree with "standing on the equipment" is questionable. "Standing on the equipment" is a sign of disrespect for the equipment as well as possibly injuring the students (for really no good/valid reason - MY OPINION. You disagree with my opinion doesn't mean my opinion is wrong or invalid) shows I am getting old. I do think that the "winterpercussion" on the street is pushing the envelope. Can't we just leave those cool 'antics' for the "winterpercussion" competition?!?! All it is going to take is someone getting hurt and it will stink for the rest of us. In this litigious world...have "fun" with that lawsuit from the "caring" parent.

The question to ask yourself is: WHY DO THE 'STUFF' ON THE STREET WHEN IN JANUARY/FEBRUARY/MARCH we will all be seeing the 're-tread' of what you did in October/November??!! Save it.
Could be they are trying to give the performers some early runthroughs to work out the kinks and get them used to doing it in comp, though I do agree that is a bit ridiculous.

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Psalm 56 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:14 pm

Hey, again, at the age of 46 years-old and 24 years of teaching high school music, I may be out out of touch. If this is the way that "street percussion" is heading... I am old :(

Even if holding guys by their legs, spinning on a knee, standing on their instruments is working out the "kinks," I cannot justify standing on 'your' instrument. I can't. And since I can't and the majority of you can (accept this as the new direction of STREET PERCUSSION)... I am the odd man out. I don't want to be a inhibitor of such creativity. If this is the direction we are heading as exceptional talent: STANDING ON INSTRUMENTS ... then ... I am like those band directors who were "sad" to hear: 'samples,' recordings of poetry being played over the band, mic-ing the pit (all of which I am content with today).

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Hostrauser » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:04 pm

My opinion: is winter percussion really THAT far away so that you can't wait? I mean, I am pretty sure the whole concept behind street percussion was to give those groups who don't perform field show an outlet for their percussion sections in the fall season. But it's gotten kind of ridiculous.

Interestingly, back when I marched NCBA in the early 90s there was a rule that ALL members of the drumline had to be moving at all times during the performance. It's not supposed to be a standstill or an indoor show brought to the street.

Guess I'm an old fuddy duddy, too. But watching all of those videos, my reaction could be summed up as...
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Psalm 56 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:12 pm

Hostrauser wrote:My opinion: is winter percussion really THAT far away so that you can't wait? I mean, I am pretty sure the whole concept behind street percussion was to give those groups who don't perform field show an outlet for their percussion sections in the fall season. But it's gotten kind of ridiculous.

Interestingly, back when I marched NCBA in the early 90s there was a rule that ALL members of the drumline had to be moving at all times during the performance. It's not supposed to be a standstill or an indoor show brought to the street.

Guess I'm an old fuddy duddy, too. But watching all of those videos, my reaction could be summed up as...
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Powerhouse08 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:47 pm

Considering the fact that i was/am responsible for 2 of those groups who's video was listed, I feel as though I should voice my opinion. (And as stated before, it will be my own personal opinion. Others may obviously feel different) First, the standing on drums. We were not the first to do such a thing. Not even close. The kids had seen it done, thought it was pretty cool, I myself felt the same so we tried it. Also, great care was taken in being able to perform such a move without damaging the instrument. I cant tell you how many hours we spent breaking down every step of the move to ensure the safety of the student as well as the instrument itself. In the end, the crowd, as well as every JUDGE (most of which are old fuddy duddy's. haha) loved it. the knee spinning was something else that the kids wanted to do and pulled it off nicely. Again, I cant tell you how many hours we spent working on that. And after each performance, the kids would feel such a sense of accomplishment for having been able to do something no one else had tried. The music itself was never sacrificed for a "cool visual". Were some of our runs dirty? Sure. Does any high school group, even with easy drill play perfect? Nah. The upside down basses. Again, something never done before on the street. Which brings me to another point. It has been mentioned that such moves should be saved for winter. However, my groups do not compete in NCBA during the winter, so the only chance to go up against these groups is during the fall. And if that's the only chance we're gonna get, we're gonna go all out, which I felt we did. And again, every judge that saw that move (as reflected in the scores), as well as the crowd, loved it.....and that's what its about. Its about making music, performing, accomplishing amazing things. Its about the kids having fun. My groups work very hard to do what they do, (as do many many other groups) but they also ENJOY what they do. I would never subject my students to doing something they didn't want to do or didn't feel safe doing. We're not trying to "push the envelope" or be innovators, or push the activity in a "different direction" or anything of the sort. We're just trying to have fun with the competitive activity that we are a part of. As has been stated, not everyone enjoys what some groups do. It just ain't their cup-o-tea. Everybody feels different and is free to feel such a way. That's perfectly fine. My groups however are focused on what we're doing and respect everyones opinions and respective efforts with their groups.
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by savvybassoon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:03 pm

I will say, that was really entertaining to watch. I'm still wondering about it though.
Hostrauser wrote: Interestingly, back when I marched NCBA in the early 90s there was a rule that ALL members of the drumline had to be moving at all times during the performance. It's not supposed to be a standstill or an indoor show brought to the street.
According to NCBA's website:
"The percussion section must march forward during the playing of their competition music and at no time shall there be any marking time or any other hold up of the parade.

The unit must maintain forward progress.

The penalty for violation of any percussion area competition rules will be DISQUALIFICATION of the percussion section."

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Powerhouse08 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:07 pm

savvybassoon wrote:I will say, that was really entertaining to watch. I'm still wondering about it though.
Hostrauser wrote: Interestingly, back when I marched NCBA in the early 90s there was a rule that ALL members of the drumline had to be moving at all times during the performance. It's not supposed to be a standstill or an indoor show brought to the street.
According to NCBA's website:
"The percussion section must march forward during the playing of their competition music and at no time shall there be any marking time or any other hold up of the parade.

The unit must maintain forward progress.

The penalty for violation of any percussion area competition rules will be DISQUALIFICATION of the percussion section."

Sooooo.....pretty much every percussion unit that competes in NCBA during the fall should be disqualified. Every judge has explained it to me, as well as many other instructors as such:

As long as ONE PERSON is maintaining forward motion, the group will not be disqualified.

That meets the requirements of forward motion.
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Psalm 56 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:54 pm

Really appreciate the thorough explanation from "Powerhouse." You and I will disagree that standing on an instrument is acceptable form of entertainment (no matter if you weren't the first one; you being the 'second' or 'third' doesn't convince me that standing on instrument is cool) and that is becuase we are of different generations. I am old. :yeah: I tend to look at things in an old :yeah: man's way. So, when I see students standing on drums or being held by their feet / legs to play a bass drum, I see things differently. I see expensive equipment that wasn't meant to be used that way (old :yeah: man thinking). I see the increased possibility of a student being hurt (old :yeah: man thnking). I just know there are some "sensitive / caring" ... uh-hum ... litigious parents. I would have probably would have made their parents sign a waiver saying, "You have our support/permission for my child to ______ ."

So, this (ONE PERSON MOVING FORWARD CONSTITUTES FORWARD MOTION) could be another example of the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law.

Again, you may not see me judge again if this is the direction an association wants to take. The direction: do all one can to get that cool audience reaction. I am glad that the other old fuddy-duddies can agree that what you are doing is beneficial for percussion. We just see things differently.

I do appreciate your passion for the art and I am thankful for your post explaining your thought process.

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by savvybassoon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:03 pm

Powerhouse08 wrote:Sooooo.....pretty much every percussion unit that competes in NCBA during the fall should be disqualified. Every judge has explained it to me, as well as many other instructors as such:

As long as ONE PERSON is maintaining forward motion, the group will not be disqualified.

That meets the requirements of forward motion.
Thanks for the clarification. My band doesn't compete percussion, so I never really understood what constituted "forward motion." It seems quite a few NCBA rules are left ambiguous. Probably to try to keep from limiting groups, but it's a bit frustrating when the consequence can mean 1st or 4th or DQ.

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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by hobgobln13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:48 pm

If I may add my two cents, I recently took over a program that competes in fall percussion and having primarily a winter background, it is an interesting activity to wrap your mind around. The staff and I took an "indoor approach" because it made the most sense to us. The rule book for street is pretty plain and simple and unlike field or indoor percussion, there is no professional street percussion league to see what is pushing the limits. We use fall as a primer for winter, so why save the big moves for winter when the kids are hungry to do things (and are capable of doing them) now. Testing things out in a two minute piece is really a nice way to test what the kids are able to do and design a more optimal winter show.

In sum, I think since most percussion instructors are coming from either indoor or outdoor corps experience, it's only natural to see those trends seep into an area that really has no definition. Just my two cents though! I respect the old school way of things too. Without the balance of old school and new, you'd either have an activity that remains true to itself but has difficulty keeping itself fresh or a constantly changing activity that become difficult to get substance from and thus become difficult to adjudicate.
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Re: NCBA STREET PERCUSSION: pushing the envelope......(?)

Post by Hostrauser » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:54 pm

It's not that I'm against fancy percussion playing in the fall, I just think the street is a lousy venue.

The Vintage Reserve Band Review in Napa holds a "concert" percussion competition that's basically an outdoor, shortened version of an indoor show. I think the NCBA should complete do away with street percussion and hold a concert or field percussion competition on the field or on a stage, between the parade and parade awards. I mean, why not? Five minute slots, could run a couple dozen shows in a couple hours, which is all that usually participates in the street percussion anyway.

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