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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:41 pm 
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AHHH... Georgie thanks for making my arguement...

...They same holds true for Bethel vs. Foothill ... different days, and different SHEETS and criteria! Just because Bethel beat Foothill at WGI doesn't mean they should beat Foothill everytime.
Also, keep in mind, scores are relative to the other performances that day ... if group one comes out and is amazing and scores high, generally speaking scores will be higher overall that day since they set the bar high!...

Your words serve as an example of what we see every weekend. George.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:54 pm 
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BDinkel Thanks for the responce...
This was not a complaint but a fact: check on either CCGC or WGI.org and the numbers are there. And yes I spoke to the Chairman Mark Thurston himself at the Logan Regional about the numbers and more importantly the RANKINGS. My major concern had to do with the fact that the "...begin all and end all..." of judging at Logan all stated, in critique and on tape, (and I paraphrase) 'wow for a middle school you guys are great how wonderful for your kids, and what a great experience for them... ... ... but.
I guess you had to be there.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:04 pm 
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STech2000 thanks for your observations. I agree with much you have said and I have heard it said many a time before...NCBA is not about Bands it's about power and control and as long as those who are incharge remain incharge nothing will change. WGI is about money and as long as there is money to make nothing will change. I don't know your history but mine started with DCI in 1969.
Keep the comments coming...


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:04 am 
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http://www.ncbaonline.org/winter_activi ... a_2011.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Psalm 56 wrote:
Well, my prediction.... THERE WILL BE SOME MOVEMENT IN THE DIVISIONS!! I can not believe that the ADVANCED division will be the same come APRIL 2ND at Loomis. I don't have a list of how the divisions are now... Yet, when I see Dublin/Laguna Creek and Granite Bay in ADVANCE... One of those three will schools (alone) will be in SCHOLASTIC in April. I say that as a compliment to those three three schools' programs. I will also make a long term prediction: NCBA WILL FINALLY HAVE AN EVALUATION SHOW.
GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US!!

The above prediction was made February 8, 2011...
I was wrong .. :oops: . GOOD LUCK TO ALL AT CHAMPS. BE SAFE.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:57 pm 
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I agree that we should have been moved to Scholastic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRgOI59NM4


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Wow. An interesting end to an interesting season. Pat on the back to LCHS/EGHS/GBHS and GHS and the other ensembles who placed. A HUGE pat on the back to...read carefully...an ensemble that finished 2nd by less than a point to GBHS March 5th; finished 2nd place to PGHS by 2+ points (following that show, PGHS MOVES UP TO SCHOLASTIC AND STILL PLACES at champs - GOOD FOR THEM)March 19th; finished in FIRST PLACE by two-plus points March 26th and then comes to finals.....DOESN'T PLACE?? DOESN'T PLACE?! Yes...to those who believe in this philosophy...the students felt good about what they did (and that is all that counts). sigh.... What I learned tonight? Whatever an NCBA ensemble does throughout the season..DOESN'T MATTER at NCBA CHAMPS. "CHAMPS" is just a another SHOW. Three of the four percussion judges NEVER SAW US until champs and I truly believe that adds to the "CHAMPS is just another show that makes A LOT OF MONEY." I do appreicate all the nice compliments my students received. Congrats to Ben and Del Oro HS for hosting a very nice CHAMPS show.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:03 am 
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Paul E ... let's go back to one of the many issues with NCBA and probably the biggest issue in winter [or any other season] percussion in NCBA ...
Your panel for finals was a panel where 3 of 4 had never seen you. Actually, this is NOT a problem as they came in with no preconceived notions of potential placements [at least for your group]. Now, of course for the other groups they had seen, it is an issue as most judges are better the more they see your show. If the judges are experienced and seasoned, seeing you for the first time would not have been that big of a deal.
The real problem comes with the pool of judges ... not the fault of the individuals judging, just a reality that NCBA has the most inexperienced and inconsistent percussion judging in California. To compare, look at the panels from the other 3 NorCal circuit championships:
~~SJCGPCR [Fresno] - Sean McNeal [over 10 years judging WBA and all 3 NorCal WGI style circuits], Dennis Aqualina [DCI and WBA judge], and some guy named Scott Johnson [whoever he is ...]
~~CCGC [Bay Area] - Sean McNeal, Dennis Aqualina, Vinnie Angelo [judged WBA finals 2 years in a row now]
~~CVGPC [Modesto] - Tom Tolbert [around 20 years judging WBA and all 3 NorCal WGI style circuits], Gavin Bering [around 20 years judging WBA, NCBA, and all 3 NorCal WGI style circuits], and some guy named Sean Glyde [another whoever he is...]
My guess is that COMBINED, the 4 panelists at the NCBA show did not have the experience of any of these judges except for Vinnie ... who has gone out of his way to improve his judging to the point that he is now one of the WBA circuit's "go to guys".
Moral of the story is that you end up with an experience like Dublin High had today ... frustrating due to the unpredictability of the judging product. Ah ... but I am sure that show was a CASH COW!!


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:48 am 
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Georgie wrote:
Paul E ... let's go back to one of the many issues with NCBA and probably the biggest issue in winter [or any other season] percussion in NCBA ...
Your panel for finals was a panel where 3 of 4 had never seen you. Actually, this is NOT a problem as they came in with no preconceived notions of potential placements [at least for your group]. Now, of course for the other groups they had seen, it is an issue as most judges are better the more they see your show. If the judges are experienced and seasoned, seeing you for the first time would not have been that big of a deal.
The real problem comes with the pool of judges ... not the fault of the individuals judging, just a reality that NCBA has the most inexperienced and inconsistent percussion judging in California. To compare, look at the panels from the other 3 NorCal circuit championships:
~~SJCGPCR [Fresno] - Sean McNeal [over 10 years judging WBA and all 3 NorCal WGI style circuits], Dennis Aqualina [DCI and WBA judge], and some guy named Scott Johnson [whoever he is ...]
~~CCGC [Bay Area] - Sean McNeal, Dennis Aqualina, Vinnie Angelo [judged WBA finals 2 years in a row now]
~~CVGPC [Modesto] - Tom Tolbert [around 20 years judging WBA and all 3 NorCal WGI style circuits], Gavin Bering [around 20 years judging WBA, NCBA, and all 3 NorCal WGI style circuits], and some guy named Sean Glyde [another whoever he is...]
My guess is that COMBINED, the 4 panelists at the NCBA show did not have the experience of any of these judges except for Vinnie ... who has gone out of his way to improve his judging to the point that he is now one of the WBA circuit's "go to guys".
Moral of the story is that you end up with an experience like Dublin High had today ... frustrating due to the unpredictability of the judging product. Ah ... but I am sure that show was a CASH COW!!

Thanks Georgie for your comments to my post. It is what it is. My big thing is NCBA CHAMPS is not champs. I can't say to my students, "Hey, you didn't place. Big Deal... just think ... you made it to champs." We didn't make it to champs..we made it to another show that saw/heard Dublin receive 5th place out of 10. I am not going to PUBLICLY criticize the judging. I DID NOT CRITICIZE the judging. I have learned. I am being critical of the title "champs." Which I have done for many years on this forum and/or at NCBA meetings.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:31 am 
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First, I have no horse in this race, or an axe to grind. My question would be, when is the last show NOT championships. Unless you would like to do like DCI, having quarter finals, semi final, prelims,then championships, or WGI with having to score at a certain percentile to qualify, then you last show is championships. Then it must be about the judging. If your using completely "fresh" eyes, then expect to have volitility in the outcomes. Different people view things differently, (unless they prepare by looking over prior shows recaps). Then the question comes to the competition. Did you outscore everyother unit head to head prior to this show? And finaly, always expect the unexpected at the last show. I have been on both sides of the spectrum of the last show. Winning is realy cool, but loosing sometimes hurts, filled with what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:18 am 
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Scores would be nice!!!! Or, information as to where we can find the scores? Anyone...anyone????


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:30 pm 
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MalletQueen wrote:
Scores would be nice!!!! Or, information as to where we can find the scores? Anyone...anyone????

http://www.ncbaonline.org/


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 NCBA Winter season
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:21 am 
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Thank you. I saw it when it was finally posted. It just took awhile, and I was interested because people were beginning to talk about it. I wish they would've posted for L-Pattern... for some reason, this is an overlooked area. I won't launch on that subject because my head will begin to hurt...


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