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In your opinion, should there be a moratorium on ALL standardized testing for at least 2 years?
Yes 91%  91%  [ 32 ]
No 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 35
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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:58 am 
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Well, after suffering through this discussion, I've decided to chime in. My Lord. Send your kid to the wilderness where mother nature can teach him, that's fine. I'll take my chances on a good ol' fashioned college-prep curriculum including music. If there is any way to have this discussion again in thirty years, I'd be happy to compare notes with anyone (whether they can spout after every argument or not). I mean, honestly...my 4 year old could have something to say too, but he's not allowed to mod a music arts/education forum, so i guess he's behind for now.


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:18 am 
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I think Aceman's point was summed up more succinctly by Mark Twain over a century ago: "I have never let schooling interfere with my education."


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:45 pm 
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BD94Euph wrote:
Well, after suffering through this discussion, I've decided to chime in. My Lord. Send your kid to the wilderness where mother nature can teach him, that's fine. I'll take my chances on a good ol' fashioned college-prep curriculum including music. If there is any way to have this discussion again in thirty years, I'd be happy to compare notes with anyone (whether they can spout after every argument or not). I mean, honestly...my 4 year old could have something to say too, but he's not allowed to mod a music arts/education forum, so i guess he's behind for now.


No one made you suffer through it. And you completely missed the point, I never said to send your kid to the wilderness. It's possible to live in a modern world, AND not waste your time living a lifestyle that's the most laborious way humans have ever found to live. Why do you think suicide and depression rates are so high and continue to climb, same with drug and alcohol abuse, murder, crime in general, etc. etc. And when our current laws don't work, how do we respond? With more laws, more rules, more police officers, and yet it continues to fail.....I always thought doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results was insanity. Either way, just because you may disagree with my point of view, doesn't mean you have to start talking to me in a condescending manner, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:47 pm 
how did we go from standardized testing to the rise in suicide rates? I mean, maybe if we lived in China or Japan I could see that correlation, but not here.


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:57 am 
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To get the thread BACK on topic...

Holding the SCHOOL accountable for the test scores does NOTHING to ensure that the STUDENTS are LEARNING.

False and ineffective form of evaluation for the school.

Start holding kids accountable for their scores and watch them shoot up.


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:08 pm 
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Get rid of band programs....
:shock:
































OK i realize that was equivalent to joking about someone dieing.

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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:20 pm 
death jokes are only funny if you have stewie from Family Guy pop in and say, "awww, too soon?"


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:23 pm 
oh sorry, I'm straying from the topic again, don't want this to get locked...


In all seriousness, they need to bring back beatings and get parents involved in their child's education. Online grades, homework, and even daily online attendance records are a start.


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:58 pm 
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tSz42 wrote:
oh sorry, I'm straying from the topic again, don't want this to get locked...


In all seriousness, they need to bring back beatings and get parents involved in their child's education. Online grades, homework, and even daily online attendance records are a start.


The course of action I would recommend is a course of action I cannot recommend...


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:32 am 
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Since most of you apparently didn't like my original idea (which I still say is the best option), the only real improvements you could make is, one by letting the kids choose how often they attend school, and which subjects they want to study. From day one, let it be a choice. When kids are forced into things they naturally rebel against it. They are actually more likely to get involved in school and want to do well if they are allowed to make a choice. I'm not talking about a few electives in high school, I'm talking about complete choice. Secondly find teachers that want to teach and are good at it, and actually pay them. This would be a start, and an improvement on the system we have now, but still not as good as the option I originally put forth.

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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:46 am 
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My opinion on the school system is quite humorously related to this XKCD comic
http://xkcd.com/519/

I'd slash useless classes and focus more on sciences and math. Stimulate interest and improve our scores on those fields to be comparable to other countries. Too many classes in high school do not transfer any skills you can use in the real world. A high school degree means nothing. I don't see why we spend money teaching kids comparative poetry and then telling them you are ready for the real world after high school.

Nothing wrong teaching kids that stuff but when money is tight, you gotta cut the programs that add the least.

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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Sadly, administrators and decision makers lump us into that category of programs that add the least.

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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:39 pm 
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Jsaxm wrote:
Sadly, administrators and decision makers lump us into that category of programs that add the least.


until they want someone to play "the song" at the beginning of the game 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:24 am 
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supermutant wrote:
Jsaxm wrote:
Sadly, administrators and decision makers lump us into that category of programs that add the least.


until they want someone to play "the song" at the beginning of the game 8-)


Haha, so true!!

The last couple years I have kind of set my foot down about this kind of stuff. We do the football games, obviously, but they always wanted us at every single home basketball game (pre-season, regular season, playoffs, etc.). I stopped going to these things little by little because I wanted to send the message that I run a music program, not a band for hire. This year I went to one game, and that's probably all I'll go to. I have more important things to do than canceling drum line rehearsals and sectionals so the kids can go sit in the stands and play "Go Big Green" all night.

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 Post subject: Re: How to save money in education.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:06 pm 
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IsnipeWithAknife wrote:
focus more on sciences and math. Stimulate interest and improve our scores on those fields to be comparable to other countries.
Actually, our best students DO score comparable with other countries. It's the fact that we test everyone, and they do not, that drags down our average.

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I don't see why we spend money teaching kids comparative poetry and then telling them you are ready for the real world after high school.

I'm sure over on the World of Poetry site they can come up with plenty of abstract and indirect reasons why studying poetry is more important that it would seem on the surface, just like we can do with music. How about...studying it helps develop overall language and writing skills. You'll need those if you're going to study anything in college.

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