new age problem

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bugledog
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new age problem

Post by bugledog » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:43 am

ok, maybe someone has a good solution here...


i have a two or three members of the hornline as my school that are taking annoying to a whole new level. They have major authority issues and openly disobey just about everything.

no dicipline works on them. one of them believes he is helping by making the staff and leadership dicipline him instead of the younger students. the others claim that marching band isn't about traditions or respect or anything of that sort. they claim anyone holding the traditions of marching band is a "NAZI"

what makes it especially difficult is that they post all over myspace the exact opposite of whatever we tell the band.

and when we ask them to stop encouraging other people to break the rules they throw the 1st ammendment in our faces and walk away...


myspace just makes everything harder for our band...and these guys don't help much either?

any ideas? maybe this is out of the hands of the student leaders...
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Post by cup_o_noodles007 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:45 am

solution one: talk with them in private, one-on-one. dont discipline them there. no yelling. just get everything out there, ask them why theyre doing what theyre doing. give them your side of the story. let them know that its hard for the band to do well since many of the staff and student leaders have to take care of them. and dont act like a leader to them when you talk to them - you need to talk to them as more of a friend. obviously, being a leader to them is what sparked this problem in the first place. let them know that you dont want to see them embarassed by anyone infront of the band.

solution two: are they truly affecting anyone? is the band able to look past their immaturities? is it affecting the show? if not, then screw it. dont pay any attention to them. and encourage others to do the same. when no one, not even the leaders, deal with them , their behavior will become very appearant to the staff. even moreso than now. eventually your staff will get tired of it and tell the director. or call them out. one of the two.

solution three, if it cant be solved: tell the director.

solution four, i forgot to add it in earlier: i hate doing this, but it does work. but it goes against every thread of my moral fiber.... bribe them with candy and other goodies. revert back to the 4th grade if you have to. it sucks... but if it works, then who cares. right?

hope this helps!

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Post by dbh2112 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:57 am

The kind of problems your talking about go on mostly everywhere. I know that there are some programs out there that can say they don't have that issue to deal with. From a staff point of view, those kids are our projects throughout the season....as long as things don't get out of hand during the process. Usually there are reasons off the field that contribute to the attitude problems on the field.......these off the field problems either need to be left off the field, or addressed point blank and dealt with to avoid any future problems. It all sounds easier than it really is.....I know this......that's why I call it a "project"! Your not alone out there, so keep working at it........obviously you love marching band as do I, and my goal as an instructor is simple.....make these kids love this activity as much as I do, and the respect of traditon and rehearsal etiquette will follow! Don't give up on your "projects"

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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:32 am

dbh2112 wrote:The kind of problems your talking about go on mostly everywhere. I know that there are some programs out there that can say they don't have that issue to deal with. From a staff point of view, those kids are our projects throughout the season....as long as things don't get out of hand during the process. Usually there are reasons off the field that contribute to the attitude problems on the field.......these off the field problems either need to be left off the field, or addressed point blank and dealt with to avoid any future problems. It all sounds easier than it really is.....I know this......that's why I call it a "project"! Your not alone out there, so keep working at it........obviously you love marching band as do I, and my goal as an instructor is simple.....make these kids love this activity as much as I do, and the respect of traditon and rehearsal etiquette will follow! Don't give up on your "projects"
Ohhhhhhhh good response. PROJECTS!! Haaaaa, never thought of it that way. But in all my years, EVERY band has at least one. I know one band I've worked with has one who is now a senior. I believe annoying is his middle name. He's half way a decent marcher. Shows up to rehearsal. Plays his part. But goooooooooooooooooooodness...he's just a "Revenge of the Nerds" type.

But strangely, he never disrupts anything. And people do what you refer to above...they just look past it.

Like I've always said, some people can catch a football and make a touchdown ("I make touchdown, coach give me banana"), and others, well, they can't. So, some can do marching band and understand the "game", and others, well, they prefer to call people one of the ugliest names in the history of mankind...a "Nazi". If I was director...I'd have canned them long ago.

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Post by Ex Nihilo » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:50 pm

i believe that they have just shot themselves in the foot with taking it to myspace and abusing the first amendment. why? because they have removed it from the limitations of being in band. i say you need to make them leave... and now you don't gotta do it nicely.

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Post by cup_o_noodles007 » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:40 pm

some other things i thought of:

1. dont give up on them.

2. they sound like newer members to me, which means, they havent quite gotton through all of their history classes. you should inform them on what a nazi actually is. and what band actually is. i doubt they know its derived from our united states military. compare and contrast if you have to. ive learned that a history lesson can go a long way - either because it opens eyes, or they never want to hear it again. but if it makes them stop with the 'nazi' thing, i say go for it.

3. inform them that they signed up to be here and signed a contract that calls for them to abide by THE PROGRAMS rules. not their own rules. also, that they have no civil liberties while at school or participating in school functions. and if they claim that they do, remind them that the school and program also has the right to react to that accordingly.

4. one thing i always try to make sure i do when requesting something from the band is using the words 'please' and 'thank you'. "please stop talking, we need to get through this drill. thank you." or whatever. dont be afraid to use that with them. 99% of people feel bad when openly disobeying someone who is being polite with them. and if they say something like "but i was quiet!" real quickly say "alright then, thats good! make sure you stay that way."

and remember also, when it all comes down to it, if nothing works, go to staff/the director and ask for them to take care of it ASAP! they will. you have more important stuff to be worrying about. the staff does too, however a staff would much rather have that problem and take care of instead of letting it linger around like its been doing so far. taking it to staff doesnt mean youre giving up on them, because your goal with them was to solve the problem. good luck!!

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Post by bugledog » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:27 pm

Thank you all for the ideas. most of these things have been tried already but we're not giving up. the director actually noticed the problem and is removing the students when they get out of hand.

as for myspace, that situation has only gotten worse and i have shut mine down to prevent any further temptation to read my nazi accusing hate mail.

i wish i could blame this on their young age as some of you suggested, but they are upperclassmen...mostly seniors i've known for 12 years.

but...i have to put that aside and do what is best for my band...and getting the director involved seems to be exactly that.
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Post by Ex Nihilo » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:42 am

i say you beat them into submission as an example of Nazism so they can learn the difference.

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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:07 am

Ex Nihilo wrote:i say you beat them into submission as an example of Nazism so they can learn the difference.
Now THERE'S some out of the box thinking!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by mkosbie » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:52 am

Have you considered the detrimental (dare I say "terrorist") effects this could be having on the patriotic feelings of other band members? As a G-d fearing, morally upright American, I feel it's your duty to refer them immediately to the current administration for permanent detention as an enemy combatant!

Conveniently, this will solve the problem for you twofold, first by getting rid of the problem students, and second by demonstrating what happens to problem students.

8-)
It's 5:00... do you know where your ancestors came from?

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Post by Ex Nihilo » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:14 pm

wow... you had political correctness in there along with American nationalism and Nazism satire...
NICELY DONE! :cool2:

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Post by the_scot » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:49 am

Solution: Tell them to shut up or quit band. At that level of disrespect, I don't care how valuable of a player they are. No one can get away with disrespect like that.
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Post by Tsaxman59 » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:26 pm

just get them out of band.....simple, easy, effective.
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Post by D.M. #57 » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:44 pm

This is a very intresing and sensitive issue. I have mixed feelings about this one.

Kicking them out of band is a solution that could be used. However all your doing is making them someone else's problem. But if it comes to that, the so be it.

As I have found in other fields of leadership, sometimes these people just need a little responsibility. It sounds stupid and it is kind of like giving a bugler a gun to shoot you with, but it works. Maybe these kids feel under appreciated? By giving them some responsibilities it lets them see the other side of things. It gives them a chance to see the resistnace that they are giving out. Don't give them anything too big like the section, but let them see why it is that you do what you do.

Hope this helps.
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