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Should sophmores and freshman be given the same chance to become section leaders?
only if the freshman is responsible and mature 46%  46%  [ 47 ]
seniority should come first 53%  53%  [ 54 ]
Total votes : 101
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:25 pm 
and now for my two cents:

I have not, will not, and will never even concieve the notion that senority is the most important thing in the world; I will, however, say that it has its purpose. I know, through experience, the torture of being a freshman (and a Sophomore) that performed better in leadership than those in my section (with the exception of my section leader Freshy year); however, I still listened to and respected the leaders in my section.

I believe that there is no reason for a Freshman to take the position of section leader, regardless of their skill or leadership, or the skill and leadership of their secton; they may be the most qualified in the band, yet if they become the leader of their elders, they are likely not to recieve the respect they deserve. This year, one of our main leaders is a Sophomore, and she recieves less respect than other, older members of our band board.

Anyway, I'm not saying that underclassmen should never be leaders, but that there is probably going to be a better candidate


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:57 pm 
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Well, that is not necessarily true. I'm the Drum Major this year as a junior, and the seniors in band respect me because I have not done anything to upset them, nor have I to the rest of the classmen. The only problems I have are with the lowerclassmen, who always mouth off to me when I give commands. Seniority has nothing to do with whether or not someone is qualified for a leadership position; for the most part, it's character.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:07 pm 
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ZJH wrote:
Well, that is not necessarily true. I'm the Drum Major this year as a junior, and the seniors in band respect me because I have not done anything to upset them, nor have I to the rest of the classmen. The only problems I have are with the lowerclassmen, who always mouth off to me when I give commands. Seniority has nothing to do with whether or not someone is qualified for a leadership position; for the most part, it's character.


Yeah... but you cant have someone who has just come into high school be a leader like everyone else. There's a difference between being a leader as a freshman and being a leader as a junior -- the freshmen haven't even been accustomed to high school yet. I say give them a chance to do that AND THEN make them leaders - if they're good enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:11 pm 
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Yeah, that's very true. There is a major difference between leading as a freshman and leading as a junior. I guess I forgot about experience being a key factor in all that. I always seem to remember the small things, but not the big things...-___-

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:25 pm 
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Hahah. It's cool.
Our school has had junior drum majors in the past as well.
As for freshman section leaders, that's out of the question.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:12 am 
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our school had junior dm too.

i say, its all about maturity and how they will use their positions. ive seen people go rotten with so much power before.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:28 pm 
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See, we have some weird things going on...

1. Our band has the whole apply for leader before the end of the school year/before vacation/way before band camp. We don't have a roster or anything of that sort. We have an approximation of the band size. So we can't have freshmen as section leaders.

2. Even though people wouldn't listen to the freshmen, it could be a good idea because they just learned how to march so, when you first learn something, you make it as perfect as you can and you know everything you need to... blah blah blah. But the flipside is, when you first learn something you aren't good at it! Therefore why would you want somebody who doesn't know what they are doing. Unless you are like my friend who has been with my band since she was in the 7th grade (because of her brother) and knows everything there is to know, then freshmen shouldn't be leaders.

3. However, we do have a sophomore drum major (assistant that is) and she doesn't get respect from the band because... the upperclassmen don't think they have to listen to her, and that influences the freshmen and sophomores to not listen... BAD THINGS!

4. We had a student leader who was a sophomore and his ego inflated to much that he ended up getting kicked out... let's just leave it to the upperclassmen unless the sophomore is going to put 120% into not inflating their ego.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:13 am 
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i think freshmen should be section leader if they are more responsible. im the only trombonist who checks if things are missing and does the section job (clean the men's room, the others dont even bother to check). i think i might challenge for section leader. the section leader for the trombones is really lazy.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:01 am 
Mookmoos25 wrote:
See, we have some weird things going on...

2. ...Therefore why would you want somebody who doesn't know what they are doing. Unless you are like my friend who has been with my band since she was in the 7th grade (because of her brother) and knows everything there is to know, then freshmen shouldn't be leaders.


Even then, the amount of experience the upperclassmen have would usually give them the upper-hand; even if you've been around, you still haven't experienced it in the same way, and you'll miss out on the little things. Just as an example, our band has 4 (there may be more, but they're the only ones I can think of atm) that have been around for far longer than our seniors (directors' children and two that have been around for about as long as the directors have both been there), yet they still don't have the full knowledge to lead the section and/or the ability to command everyone's respect in the same way as may be needed. I'll elaborate more on this in a sec...


Mookmoos25 wrote:
3. However, we do have a sophomore drum major (assistant that is) and she doesn't get respect from the band because... the upperclassmen don't think they have to listen to her, and that influences the freshmen and sophomores to not listen... BAD THINGS!


We're having a similar problem, only it started with freshmen mostly and spread to a few upperclassmen, but they've mostly subsided. Then again, the same people are giving their section leaders and drum major the same difficulty.


Mookmoos25 wrote:
4. We had a student leader who was a sophomore and his ego inflated to much that he ended up getting kicked out... let's just leave it to the upperclassmen unless the sophomore is going to put 120% into not inflating their ego.


Ah, we have a name for this behavior: "sophomoreitus." I should know, I had a touch of it Sophomore year, untill I realized what was going on. For the most part, however, you have to know the person that is going into the leadership position; certain people aren't leaders and others are, it's as simple as that.

Anyway, now that I'm nice and caffine-deprived, I'll say my peace:

For the most part, I strongly believe that Freshmen both should not and cannot effectivly lead a section, as they just don't have the experience needed to run the section. Even if you have a complete fool going for the leadership position vs. a Freshman, I would give the position to the fool, as, when put into authority, even the most imature and imbicilic of people can, and often will, mature. Furthermore, if the Freshman sees the poor leadership shown, they will know what not to do when they get their turn.

As for Sophomores and Juniors, I see no problem allowing them the chance at leadership positions, provided they are both mature enough for and capable of doing their task.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:22 am 
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Mookmoos25 wrote:
See, we have some weird things going on...

1. Our band has the whole apply for leader before the end of the school year/before vacation/way before band camp. We don't have a roster or anything of that sort. We have an approximation of the band size. So we can't have freshmen as section leaders.



Yeah. Our band works like that too, so it completely eliminates the freshmen from the process anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:39 am 
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most of the time the upper classmen are more mature and have a much better undrstanding of whats going on so most of the time they're the best pick but not always. that being said freshmen need to wait their turn and learn to be a follower before then can even come close to being a good leader.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:22 pm 
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I was a freshman section leader. In my band sectoin leaders were not assisgned until band camp, and the section was all freshmen except for one. I had more leadership and expereince playing than her so I was chosen. I think that if the freshmen are quailfyed, then why not? Especially if the upperclassmen are lazy!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:54 pm 
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IsnipeWithAknife wrote:
whats the point of maturity when the person has no experience....
theres many aspects to the 'who can do a better job' question


I agree. How can a freshmen who has never marched before or participated in high school band possibly have what it takes to lead a group of people who could have more then three years of experience over them?

I am not one for the seniority thing, I think everyone should have a fair chance, but in some cases seniority should have some sort of weight.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:11 pm 
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I think seniority should come first. Leadership should also be determined based on how well they can command respect. I would only support a freshman section leader if the leadership is severely lacking from the top (a good example would be our orchestra. My freshman year the 2nd violins had a freshman leader, and this year both the basses and the cellos have a freshman section leader. I guess this lack of leadership from the top is what contributes to the lethargy that has struck them lately)

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 Post subject: You must learn to follow before you can lead...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:35 pm 
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Okay, Over at my school, a freshman section leader is unheard of, mostly because they wouldnt really know how to march in marching band, but also because they would be going in there not knowing a soul, how are you supposed to lead people who are older, more experienced, and know each other. so it cannot come down to musical ability at that age, even if the guy is a prodigy,( and we have a few of those at our school). Sophmores are still a little risky, But at least their a bit more entrenched with most of the other students and have more experience with the way things are done.

As a sophmore Drum major it was difficult to gain the support of some of the older members, but eventually it settled in as we built on the fondness that we had developed in the year before. If its a discussion of chairs, or 1st, 2nd, or 3rd whatever, than give the kid a position he deserves, just as long as it isn't leadership.

Besides, its good for the freshman to play a lower part, for the first year, it builds character :twisted:


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