Copyright issues

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old double reeder
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Copyright issues

Post by old double reeder » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:56 pm

I'm posting this here, since boosters are generally running a competition...

We hosted a show in November, just for our district schools. Very low key, lots of parents helping...a great evening for everyone.

In our innocence, we had a parent volunteer to make a digital video recording of all the groups, and created a dvd we could sell to those who wanted it. We took orders, reproduced the dvd, and got them to everyone who ordered one.

I have a feeling that this was a copyright violation. Our schools have permission to perform the music...but we didn't have permission to record them and sell it for a profit.

How have others handled this? Is this a "everyone else is doing it" so we all look the other way? Copyright infringement is a BIG deal - my dad makes a sizable portion of his annual income from royalties from a few songs he wrote...

I know every show I've attened in the past several years has ALWAYS had an on site video area...how can this be done legally - and where can I find info on this?

Thanks in advance!

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jacjar1
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Post by jacjar1 » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:44 pm

viewtopic.php?t=2613&highlight=copyright

This was a discussion on the marching band thread not sure if its what you are looking for.
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sokkerboie
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Post by sokkerboie » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:27 am

You can ask that each unit obtain permissions for the music they are using and you can then work through ASCAP and BMI to pay a fee for the income you will generate from sales. I would talk with WGI or DCI or the video producer for CCGC to see how they handle this issue.

But yes, music licensing and selling videos is becoming more and more serious. If you are not careful you could find a few years down the road with a high penalty fee.
Talent is not only a blessing, it is a burden, as the gifted ones will soon find out - Vince Lombardi

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Post by xrichster04x » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:22 pm

This is why WBA stopped making videos which i wish they would bring back but they wont...sigh
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Post by JazzGeek » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:01 am

sokkerboie wrote:You can ask that each unit obtain permissions for the music they are using and you can then work through ASCAP and BMI to pay a fee for the income you will generate from sales. I would talk with WGI or DCI or the video producer for CCGC to see how they handle this issue.

But yes, music licensing and selling videos is becoming more and more serious. If you are not careful you could find a few years down the road with a high penalty fee.
Instead of doing all that work, one stop at http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp will take care of your licensing needs. In this case, you need a mechanical license for every copyrighted tune; public domain music [like most classical stuff] doesn't require a mechanical license. It's not as expensive as you think.... 8-)

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Post by sokkerboie » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:26 pm

Actually you will need a synchronization license (which is when you put someone else's music to video image). The costs can varybased on the numbers sold, the cost, and at the discretion of the license holder. And actually ANY time someone else's music is used in a public performance (tickets sold or not) a licensing permission is needed. Many times ASCAP and BMI will let non-profit groups go for a mere $15 per performance, but at no time is is legal to use someone else's music in a performance situation without rights.

About public domain. Nothing past 1920 is in the public domain so everythign since then is subject to licensing. And no music will be added until 2020. Also - if you use an arrangement created since 1920 it is technically NOT in public domain (for example if you arrange directly from an arranged score - many arrangers will slightly change the score so that it is copyrightable). Be very careful with this.

There are companies that will secure the rights for your, but that usually must be done BEFORE the event and all must be in place before any video is captured. And sometimes this can run at a cost and you will need to obtain information from ALL performing units.
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Post by JazzGeek » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:41 pm

Many times ASCAP and BMI will let non-profit groups go for a mere $15 per performance, but at no time is is legal to use someone else's music in a performance situation without rights.
In all my 30+ years of being in the music biz, I have never seen BMI or ASCAP go to a high school band concert to collect $15...... :shock:
Now ask me about song clearances for the recent Comic Relief show in Las Vegas and I'll show you a list of songs that were rejected from air because of how expensive the royalties were to secure them. It was cheaper to blow 12-bar blues and 2-chord jams in between some acts rather than tunes---even a charity like Comic Relief doesn't get a break......

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Post by sokkerboie » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:01 pm

ASCAP and BMI have people hired in various regions who scout in bars, senior citizen homes and more. A big trend has been to stop into daycare centers and cite them for using Disney videos without a license - not a fun picture but true. My only advice is that bands, band show hosts, circuits, etc are at their own risk because the FCC, BMI, ASCAP and others are cracking down after the whole Napster and downloading issue has come about. Just my experience working in the industry.
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Post by JazzGeek » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:58 pm

ASCAP and BMI have people hired in various regions who scout in bars, senior citizen homes and more. A big trend has been to stop into daycare centers and cite them for using Disney videos without a license - not a fun picture but true.
I have yet to bump into an ASCAP rep here in San Diego; when I had my own issues with ASCAP collecting royalties for my songwriting, their support was nowhere to be found. I find that citing daycare centers is ill-conceived; a good lawyer can argue "fair-use". I'd like to read about some instances where this happened---was this a big city thing or country bumpkins in the stix?

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Post by LoyalTubist » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:52 am

There is an infamous story about the Archdiocese of Chicago and the trouble they got into over the Richard Rodgers song, "Edelweiss." Someone thought it was an Austrian folk song, so worshipful words were applied to it. When the Rodgers and Hammerstein Trust heard about this, they were furious. I don't remember how much money was involved, but it was a lot. Just so you all know, it's a Broadway show tune from "The Sound of Music," by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein, II, and still under copyright.

Another Rodgers and Hammerstein show tune which should be mentioned is "Oklahoma." It is both the state song of Oklahoma and one of the fight songs for the University of Oklahoma Sooners. Whatever is done with that song legally is done with the permission of the Rodgers and Hammerstein Trust.

While it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, it's not always cheaper!

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