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Pro War or Anti War
Pro War 68%  68%  [ 17 ]
Anti War 32%  32%  [ 8 ]
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 Post subject: Your thoughts on war
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:43 pm 
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what are your feelings on us going to war in 48 hours (but i think we'll give them a longer time :roll: ) I personally am prowar...I think its something that has to be done, but I know a lot of people disagree with me..what do you think?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:58 pm 
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I think whether or not you agree with the war, at least pray for those putting their lives on the line.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:52 pm 
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While we're on the subject of war here's a few thoughts.

1. "No blood for oil!" That slogan is useless IMHO. We didn't take advantage of the oil after the Gulf War and I don't think it'll be a major factor after this current conflict.

2. Proof of WMD. I believe our intelligence is keeping evidence away from the public view in order to keep our intelligence tactics a secret. Would you want your method of gathering intelligence blown?

3. International Support. Countries have economic situations that prevent them from going to war. Europe for the most part does not want conflict either because they have seen conflict on their soil from years past. As for France and other European countries objecting to war I believe it is simply a way to show their last stand of individuality before the EU becomes more solidified like a United States.

4. United Nations. They can not enforce their own resolutions so it is up to the United States to lead the world. A lot of people like to use past examples of wars to describe the current situation. I see containment as like appeasement given to Hitler between the World Wars.

5. Pray for peace. You're probably wondering why I list that after showing reasons for a war. I pray for peace because I hope this show of force will pressure a peaceful change without a shot being fired. Above opinion keep in mind we have our men and women of the Armed Forces putting their lives on the line. They are out there with the intent to protect the American people from a future threat.

On campus it amazes me seeing protest groups. College campuses are generally liberal and here at UC Irvine the conservative viewpoint is not represented as much as the liberal viewpoint.

When it comes to being affiliated with left or right there's a few things to keep in mind. To label someone completely left or right is ignorant. I identify myself as a moderate conservative. Before engaging in a political conversation try to stay away from the usual anti left or right rhetoric. Typically the usual ones used against the right wing are "Big Business", "War Monger", "No Blood For Oil!" and such. Please people and do your research. I highly respect people of the left that do their research on their viewpoints instead of being "Lookit me I'm being a rebel!".

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:11 am 
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[UCI]-Mike wrote:
While we're on the subject of war here's a few thoughts.

1. "No blood for oil!" That slogan is useless IMHO. We didn't take advantage of the oil after the Gulf War and I don't think it'll be a major factor after this current conflict.

2. Proof of WMD. I believe our intelligence is keeping evidence away from the public view in order to keep our intelligence tactics a secret. Would you want your method of gathering intelligence blown?

3. International Support. Countries have economic situations that prevent them from going to war. Europe for the most part does not want conflict either because they have seen conflict on their soil from years past. As for France and other European countries objecting to war I believe it is simply a way to show their last stand of individuality before the EU becomes more solidified like a United States.

4. United Nations. They can not enforce their own resolutions so it is up to the United States to lead the world. A lot of people like to use past examples of wars to describe the current situation. I see containment as like appeasement given to Hitler between the World Wars.

5. Pray for peace. You're probably wondering why I list that after showing reasons for a war. I pray for peace because I hope this show of force will pressure a peaceful change without a shot being fired. Above opinion keep in mind we have our men and women of the Armed Forces putting their lives on the line. They are out there with the intent to protect the American people from a future threat.


I'm pro-War. Allow me to add to your points (which I largely agree with):

1. "No blood for oil!" is a hilarious statement by those who don't have a CLUE about economics. If all the U.S. wanted was cheap oil, there are countless easier ways to go about getting it (namely, aid packages and/or contracts with Nigeria, Venezuela, Indonesia, etc. etc.). Barring that, if ALL the U.S. was in this for was oil, why not lift the sanctions on Iraq and free up their economy? The simple fact that sanctions remained in place destroys the "oil conspiracy."

2. "Proof of WMD." Wake up, folks. Take a history class or something. The U.S. knows Iraq has WMD because WE'RE THE ONES WHO GAVE THEM THEIR FIRST WMDs!! There was this little thing back in the 1980s called the Iraq-Iran war. At the time, Iran (with their fanatical leader, Ayatollah Khomeni) was considered the greater threat. The U.S. supplied money and tons of weaponry to help Iraq's cause, and it's foolish to thing that chemical weapons weren't amongst them. Especially since Iraq's first chemical weapons tests didn't occur until the late 80s, after the U.S. had gotten involved. Funny how all this stuff keeps biting us on the butt, isn't it? The U.S. also gave arms to the Taliban in Afghanistan in the 1980s, because they were fighting off a Soviet invasion and the U.S.S.R. was public enemy #1.

3. "International Support." Money, money, money. France and Russia have huge trade and oil agreements with Iraq. France is the #1 exporter of goods to Iraq, and, in fact, it was French companies who helped build Iraq's nuclear plants. France also sent plenty of arms to Iraq in the 1980s. Currently, Iraq owes France over $8 Billion in oil IOU's and France has huge oil development contracts with Saddam that require cessation of the UN Sanctions to come to fruition. France (and Russia) are terrified that the U.S. is going into Iraq and removing Saddam from power before the French have finished collecting from the deadbeat. France and Russia have oil contracts with Iraq totalling almost $20 billion; contracts that are HIGHLY exploitative of the Iraqi people. Believe me, France and Russia's motive for peace are not noble, merely economical. What the French - and for that matter the Russians - want is peace for oil. As long as Saddam is in power the current French and Russian oil contracts remain intact.

4. "United Nations." They had their chance (12 years, in fact) and didn't get the job done. Nice try, thanks for your effort, now sit down and shut up.

Let me clarify one thing: I am not Republican, I am not a Democrat. I agree and disagree with views from each side. That being said, Bush is getting WAY too much flak for this. How quickly America forgets that Bill Clinton was in office for EIGHT YEARS and accomplished NOTHING in this arena. I guess he was too busy with his interns to deal with major international issues.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:10 am 
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I am against the war. Do not get me wrong though. I will pray for those that go out and defend me and my country, but I do not believe that they should have to lose their lives. I am only against the war, only because I do not believe that anyone should have to lose their life in a foreign country. I am just not in support to violence mainly. I am more of a pacifist than I am anything. I have a friend in the Navy, and I respect him more than I do other people. This is because he is going to put his life ahead of others. I would put my life before others, and if I were drafted, I would go and I would fight with honor, and I would go and protect my country, but if given the choice, I will say that I am anti-war. It is kind of like the fact that I do not agree with President Bush, but he is our president, and I respect him for his decisions, no matter how much I disagree with them. By the way Mike and Phantom, you are both 100% correct in what you are saying, and our reasons for going to war. But like [UCI]-Mike said, if you pray, than please pray for those that have to fight in the war.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:46 am 
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I'm surprised by the liberal vote.

I myself am pro-war, and I think that President Bush is doing at the very least, a very good job in his international dealings.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:24 pm 
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I heard an awesome quote about war today and I thought i'd just plug it in right here

"War isnt about who is right, its who is left.

I have very mixed feelings about the war, I have friends who are in current service with the military, even some who are currently on the east coast waiting to be sent.

Oddly enough we are studying emperialism in World History. A lot of similarities. Our teacher, Mrs. Brimele if anyone from GHS is reading this, thinks that Bush is only pushing the war so much because he dosnt want the US to appear weak. That if Iraq can get away with something, who knows what other country might try next.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:29 pm 
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Quote:
1. "No blood for oil!" That slogan is useless IMHO. We didn't take advantage of the oil after the Gulf War and I don't think it'll be a major factor after this current conflict.

2. Proof of WMD. I believe our intelligence is keeping evidence away from the public view in order to keep our intelligence tactics a secret. Would you want your method of gathering intelligence blown?

3. International Support. Countries have economic situations that prevent them from going to war. Europe for the most part does not want conflict either because they have seen conflict on their soil from years past. As for France and other European countries objecting to war I believe it is simply a way to show their last stand of individuality before the EU becomes more solidified like a United States.

4. United Nations. They can not enforce their own resolutions so it is up to the United States to lead the world. A lot of people like to use past examples of wars to describe the current situation. I see containment as like appeasement given to Hitler between the World Wars.


Quote:
1. "No blood for oil!" is a hilarious statement by those who don't have a CLUE about economics. If all the U.S. wanted was cheap oil, there are countless easier ways to go about getting it (namely, aid packages and/or contracts with Nigeria, Venezuela, Indonesia, etc. etc.). Barring that, if ALL the U.S. was in this for was oil, why not lift the sanctions on Iraq and free up their economy? The simple fact that sanctions remained in place destroys the "oil conspiracy."

2. "Proof of WMD." Wake up, folks. Take a history class or something. The U.S. knows Iraq has WMD because WE'RE THE ONES WHO GAVE THEM THEIR FIRST WMDs!! There was this little thing back in the 1980s called the Iraq-Iran war. At the time, Iran (with their fanatical leader, Ayatollah Khomeni) was considered the greater threat. The U.S. supplied money and tons of weaponry to help Iraq's cause, and it's foolish to thing that chemical weapons weren't amongst them. Especially since Iraq's first chemical weapons tests didn't occur until the late 80s, after the U.S. had gotten involved. Funny how all this stuff keeps biting us on the butt, isn't it? The U.S. also gave arms to the Taliban in Afghanistan in the 1980s, because they were fighting off a Soviet invasion and the U.S.S.R. was public enemy #1.

3. "International Support." Money, money, money. France and Russia have huge trade and oil agreements with Iraq. France is the #1 exporter of goods to Iraq, and, in fact, it was French companies who helped build Iraq's nuclear plants. France also sent plenty of arms to Iraq in the 1980s. Currently, Iraq owes France over $8 Billion in oil IOU's and France has huge oil development contracts with Saddam that require cessation of the UN Sanctions to come to fruition. France (and Russia) are terrified that the U.S. is going into Iraq and removing Saddam from power before the French have finished collecting from the deadbeat. France and Russia have oil contracts with Iraq totalling almost $20 billion; contracts that are HIGHLY exploitative of the Iraqi people. Believe me, France and Russia's motive for peace are not noble, merely economical. What the French - and for that matter the Russians - want is peace for oil. As long as Saddam is in power the current French and Russian oil contracts remain intact.

4. "United Nations." They had their chance (12 years, in fact) and didn't get the job done. Nice try, thanks for your effort, now sit down and shut up.


I agree with both of you, for the most part.

1. I don't know how much lifting the sanctions would help based on enemy leadership (which I am not in the mood to go in to), but I do agree that we could get oil from other sources to more than make up for what we lost from Iraq. Besides, if all Americans are whining about is high gas prices, instead of reailizing the importance of a lunatic killing his own country and people, perhaps a little shed blood from the homefront will open their eyes to the fact that more important things are going on.

2. Finally! Somebody has made the point that I always make in discussions with people. Thank you for pointing out the fact that we supplied Iraq with the weapons people don't want to think they have. I was hoping this would be brought to light. Also, intelligence gathering wouldn't be as big of a deal. In fact, when I think of how many times we have had things stolen from us, (i.e. Russia and the atomic bomb), I don't think our government has much pride to take in our intelligence gathering measures. Aside from a few noteworthy intelligence things, like MAGIC and using girl's names for cars in Gone and 60 Seconds, I wouldn't be taking a bow.

3. True, economics drive quite a bit of it. Also, peole don't understand that we are better at taking help than giving it. This is not to say we don't help other countries out, that wouldn't be true, but we already had some help in Afghanistan, and we often seem to have Canada and Australia on our sides regardless. As for this being international, our administration decided to proceed without help, when, perhaps, if we had waited we could have had more. I'm not saying waiting would have been wiser, something certainly needs to be done, and I'm sure this point has been made before, but we should have taken care of this all when we were already in there. End of story. I don't know how much the EU has to do with it, but people for the most part think other countries should have a debt of gratitude to us because we're so great and powerful. I have actually been in conversations where people have told me, in all seriousness, things to the effect of 'but we're rich and happy, people should help us' :lol:

4. The UN. I apologize if I offend anybody, but can somebody name a more token administration? Honestly, not to say they don't get anything done, or haven't done anything in the past, but mostly I would have to say the UN is very good at shaking its finger and not doing anything. Look, the League of Nations did the same thing with Hitler and Japan, just said 'oh no, we don't like that.' Now, instead of issuing another condemnation note like we did when Japan invaded Manchuria, we're actually doing something. People have the right to complain, but all the UN could have done by approving it is give a token force of people who would either get in the way, or not make that much of a difference. Instead of waiting for the bickering and deliberating of ambassadors or political leaders, Bush just said "screw 'em, we're going in anyway." That is where I applaud him.

I'm not politically involved and usually don't make much statement on these issues, but I figured people already threw in their two cents without raising a ruckus, so it should be safe to throw in mine as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:19 am 
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Whether your pro- or anti- war, please support the troops overseas who defend your rights here in the US. My fiance's old company is over there (1st Marine Expeditionary Force) along with my sister's husband and his father. One of the missles Iraq launched landed about 300 yards from my brother-in-law's camp. Please pray for their safe return.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:50 am 
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I have a friend in the military. He was in my section, and was like an older brother to me. I looked up to him. As of right now I do not know where he is. I have not heard from him in about a month, but yeah. I may not support the war, but I pray for those men and women every day. I also pray for the families that must suffer knowing that they have some one out there. This is why I hate war. Because there are people that we know out there. Yeah, they might be fighting to protect me, but, whether I know a person or not inevitably with war, comes death. Puck, I will pray for your Brother-in-laws safe return, and I will pray for the safe returns of all of our brothersd and sisters that are in the war.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:31 am 
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For those of you who support and love our troops - and i truly hope we all do - please, show it by wearing the yellow ribbon. Whether you are pro or anti-war, the yellow ribbons show your support for our fellow Americans fighting abroad.

Thanks all.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:25 pm 
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Please support the troops my brother is getting sent out as soon as he graduates college in a couple weeks. The anti-war protest make no sense to me, they want peace by distrubing people and ruining things. I don't care if you are anti or pro war but these are americans and peoples family and friends that are dying for us even if we don't agree it won't change anything now. please wear yellow ribbons or have them around somewhere visable. Even if you don't agree the war i am sure someone you love with fight for whatever cause we are fighting for. Please support the troops even if you don't support the war.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:28 pm 
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UCI Mike and Phantom Phan: I am totally with you guys, 'nuff said about that...

I also think all of the "protests" are completely ridiculous. Watching the coverage on the TV, it seems as though the dumbest (if that is possible) people in the anti-war crowd get interviewed. None of them seem as though they are able to make a coherent and rational statement...

For what it is worth, here is my take on students "walking-out" of class in protest. Let us be honest here, the majority of those kids just wanted to be out of class. They should have all been suspended. You want free speech, do it on Saturday when you are giving up YOUR time, not the time of the teachers and students that want to learn.

The reasons why action by the U.S. became necessary:

1) It is safe to say that during the Clinton "Era" the perception of the US as a military power was greatly diminished. He bought off anyone that had a problem with the US. Weak-minded fools think this means you are a coward and are a ripe target to be struck because you will not retaliate. Case in point, 9/11. If Clinton would have taken out Bin Laden after the FIRST WTC attack, 9/11 would not have happened. **Please note: This is ONE HUGE reason why I am glad that Gore the Bore is NOT the Pres. He would have been apologizing and blaming our relations with the world for the attack, not taking care of business realistically.**

GW is just trying to make the statement that if you attack the US or we even think you are involved with anyone that does, you will get smacked ten ways to Tuesday. Unfortunately, the only thing some people understand is brute force, and we have more than enough to go around...

2) Read your world history. Remember Germany after WWI? They were able to raise an army powerful enough to conquer Europe even with sanctions tougher than those against Iraq the past 12 years. Remember also that Iraq under Hussein has a history of invading and attempting to take over their neighbors. This is where Imperialism comes in, however the Imperialist is Hussein's Iraq, not the US...

Will it cost more lives to handle the problem now, or waiting until after Hussein would have taken control of the entire middle east and fortified his positions and resources?

That is all for now...

Just expressing my Freedom of Speech...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:04 am 
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i am pro war at first i was undecided and i thought ok well bush will do what he needs to do to get sadaam and his sons out of power. but now that we r at war i am pro war and i think that the people that go and protest are kinda stupid because they dont realize hey were already at war if u protest bush isnt gonna suddenly go oh i think we should stop the war now and leave sadaam in power i mean come on people think about it u holding a little sign isnt gonna do ne thing what u need to be worried about is some relative that hey they might be distant but we probably all know somebody that is out fighting for our safty and we need to be praying for them not going around holding signs :frustrated:


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 Post subject: protests
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:25 am 
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i think protesting is fine to an extent...but when you go out and shut down whole streets and busniess' its going waaaaaaaaaaaay too far...i would have no problem if they just went on the side of the road or in a park somewhere that wouldnt wreck havoc...then when it gets violent its even worse..thats a terrible way to be injured in an anti war protest..."while i was fighting for no violence i broke my leg" :roll:

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