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A modest proposal
http://worldofpageantry.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16151
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Author:  cymtech [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  A modest proposal

Dear Users,

i would like your input on a proposal that a few people have discussed in PM.

I propose that there be a sticky at the top of the forum that spells out some rules and guidelines. When to start a new topic vs. posting in an old one, what are unacceptable discussion topics, reasons why threads would be locked, and things of this general nature.

I feel like this board lacks some consistency between moderators and this would fix that. Some Mods close topics that others would leave open, some Mods are even inconsistent with themselves.

I also feel like some users are unaware of some of the taboo subjects or how to go about revisiting older topics.

PROS:
less threads would get locked because people would know what is/isnt acceptable
new users can have a simple reference of the rules so they dont break them
more uniform consistency of Mods

I am not asking for a free for all. i am not bashing the Mods or WOP. i am suggesting a way that might improve the forums as a whole and have rules posted some place other than in the minds of a few people.

Thank you for your time.

Author:  senza cervello [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

Hmm... I believe formermarcher once had a sticky that was quite useful.

http://www.worldofpageantry.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9870

Oh look, here it is, un-stickied for some reason? Can't we just re-sticky it?


Please be fully well aware that regardless of how many stickies you put in however many forums with however many warnings in however many topics, people WILL NOT LISTEN.

Author:  tSz42 [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

Although I'm sure his post had some good points, its outdated and needs some updating and content added.

Author:  Hostrauser [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

senza cervello wrote:
Please be fully well aware that regardless of how many stickies you put in however many forums with however many warnings in however many topics, people WILL NOT LISTEN.

Quoted for truth.

I've re-stickied that thread, although I don't think a lot of people paid any attention to it in late 2007 and 2008.

Of course, I'm sure everyone remembers the rules they agreed to when they first signed up on these forums?
World of Pageantry wrote:
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Perhaps these should be added to the stickied post, if they aren't there already.

But, as Senza said, you can wallpaper the forum with stickies; it still doesn't mean people will read them.

There really isn't a list of hard-and-fast rules for this forum because it would be nearly impossible to create a concise, complete list to cover every possible scenario (plus, there are a lot of clever people out there who love to look for loopholes, violate the spirit if not the letter of the law, then complain when they are "punished" for it). This is why things are left up to the moderators' discretion.

Addressing one issue specifically: "When to start a new topic vs. posting in an old one."
http://worldofpageantry.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13379

But still, there's room for flexibility. Use your common sense: if the thread says "2004 Outer Humptulips Band Review," don't post the 2005 lineup in it: start a new thread.

I would PREFER if no thread older than two years was resurrected. However, if you do wish to update an old, old conversation, please update it with pertinent and relevant conversation. Example...

A thread on King Stahlman H.S. 2003 field show hasn't had a post since July of 2004. It gets updated with a post in 2009.
GOOD: you were a member of that band, and update the thread in 2009 with your detailed experiences during the course of the season.
BAD: "Oh ya, man, that show ROCKED!!!"

I've been a moderator on WOP for over six years. This issue comes and goes. The only advice I can give is this: I have locked far, far more threads because of the WAY things are being expressed as opposed to the content of WHAT is being expressed.

Author:  cymtech [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

The post that was marked as a sticky is a great start! i think it is a little out of date and needs some small changes but it is a step in the right direction.

The one thats going to be a little harder is the off topic one, simply because the topics are so random.


I know some people will be totally oblivious to the sticky and will still break the rules, but i think it is still great to have there as it can be used as a quick reference.

Author:  Jsaxm [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

cymtech wrote:
I know some people will be totally oblivious to the sticky and will still break the rules, but i think it is still great to have there as it can be used as a quick reference.


For all of us who already follow the rules, haha!!

Author:  The Aceman [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

Jsaxm wrote:
cymtech wrote:
I know some people will be totally oblivious to the sticky and will still break the rules, but i think it is still great to have there as it can be used as a quick reference.


For all of us who already follow the rules, haha!!


Exactly, we can post rules 'til we're blue in the face and it wont make a difference. But like Hostrauser said, I think most topics are not locked for the topic of conversation, but for the conduct of the users. I personally try to give a topic at least one chance to straighten out with a warning before locking it. I think (at least in the OT forums) we are very lenient on how we moderate. I wont mentions any names, but I will admit their are some moderators who I don't necessarily agree with how they moderate, but Dave made them moderators for a reason, and if he thinks anyone is moderating improperly, he will set them straight. And really that's what it boils down to, it's a privately owned website, and Dave gets the final say on what the "rules" are. We are given guidelines to work within, but as has been said already, it's hard to make a "rule" for every possible situation. Usually, it's a judgment call that has to be made by someone, and will never satisfy everyone. I've had situations where I locked a thread and one person PM'ed me to thank me, and another Pm'ed me to question the wisdom of the lock. Also, we are human, and even though we try to be impartial as possible, sometimes mistakes are made. I've found one of the biggest challenges as a moderator is trying to judge impartially, even when involving users who clearly don't care for me (or vice-versa), but believe it or not I still try to do my best. And as always (and I'm sure this goes for all the moderators on this site), I am open to discussion through threads like these and PM.

Author:  fieldshowqueen [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A modest proposal

The Aceman wrote:
Jsaxm wrote:
cymtech wrote:
I know some people will be totally oblivious to the sticky and will still break the rules, but i think it is still great to have there as it can be used as a quick reference.

For all of us who already follow the rules, haha!!

Exactly, we can post rules 'til we're blue in the face and it wont make a difference. But like Hostrauser said, I think most topics are not locked for the topic of conversation, but for the conduct of the users. I personally try to give a topic at least one chance to straighten out with a warning before locking it. I think (at least in the OT forums) we are very lenient on how we moderate. I wont mentions any names, but I will admit their are some moderators who I don't necessarily agree with how they moderate, but Dave made them moderators for a reason, and if he thinks anyone is moderating improperly, he will set them straight. And really that's what it boils down to, it's a privately owned website, and Dave gets the final say on what the "rules" are. We are given guidelines to work within, but as has been said already, it's hard to make a "rule" for every possible situation. Usually, it's a judgment call that has to be made by someone, and will never satisfy everyone. I've had situations where I locked a thread and one person PM'ed me to thank me, and another Pm'ed me to question the wisdom of the lock. Also, we are human, and even though we try to be impartial as possible, sometimes mistakes are made. I've found one of the biggest challenges as a moderator is trying to judge impartially, even when involving users who clearly don't care for me (or vice-versa), but believe it or not I still try to do my best. And as always (and I'm sure this goes for all the moderators on this site), I am open to discussion through threads like these and PM.

I will say this at the risk of being blamed for "people like me causing others not to post here" ... I am a member and moderator and administrator of several groups. The USERS not the moderators set the tone. If you cannot read the rules and abide by them, then the thread should be locked and/or the poster banned. Why would you need repeated reminders each and every time you have something to say? And Aceman, I congrate you for your insight and Hostrauser for his patience. Outta here.

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