Holst or Williams?!?!

Personal · Post by **Personal** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:21 am

So, I was listening to War, by Gustav Holst, and I thought that the music sounded very familiar. You might say, "DUH!" It is War by Gustav Holst, but I was determined to figure out what it sounded like. And then it hit me. John Williams must have modeled his Star Wars "War" music from Holst's War. Maybe it is just coincidence, but I would highly doubt it.

The reason I say this, is because anyone in band should have heard the Planets by Holst, and if you haven't, than you are deprived and need to go buy a CD with them on it. But anywho, I thought that was very interesting. So, what are your thoughts?

formermarcher · Post by **formermarcher** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:53 pm

I prefer Holst to listen to because his music, to me, is so much more soothing than Williams. I just really enjoy hearing them.

The thing with Williams is that he tends to repeat himself so much...it gets boring after awhile.

formermarcher · Post by **formermarcher** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:55 pm

Also, I don't think Williams stole anything from Holst. I understand there was a bit of gap between the two, and even if Williams did steal the music from Star Wars, he has done countless other films.

Granted I said he repeats himself alot, I find tat mainly in his action music. The music for Minority Report, for example, bore little resemblence to that of Star Wars. And the Patriot was the only movie where I could not guess the music composer was John WIlliams.

So yes it may be true that Williams "borrowed" themes from Holst, and if he did it may only be apparent in the Star Wars films.

Personal · Post by **Personal** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:03 pm

No, I prefer Holst over Williams also, I was just saying that I thought it was interesting, that the music did sound that same. If he did steal the ideas, than good for him for pulling it off. Thats all I was trying to say.

LovableSheep · Post by **LovableSheep** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:30 pm

I like Holst over Williams. Williams steals stuff from everywhere all the time, even from himself sometimes. But that's something all composers do, so I don't hate him or anything for it. I still like Williams, but I like Holst better.

Hostrauser · Post by **Hostrauser** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:52 pm

LovableSheep wrote:I like Holst over Williams. Williams steals stuff from everywhere all the time, even from himself sometimes. But that's something all composers do, so I don't hate him or anything for it. I still like Williams, but I like Holst better.

True, true, but some composers (like Williams) do it more than others... I'm always amused when I hear composers borrow music from a 2nd composer, who had already borrowed it from someone else!

For example...

I went and bought a Steven Reineke CD because I heard so many people here rave about "Fate of the Gods" and "Into the Raging River." Personally, I think he sucks eggs. His music is very devoid of color and depth, and sounds very amateurish. It's what I'd expect from just about any college composition major.

"Into the Raging River" was easily his best piece, but it's only a fair piece at that. I was very amused to hear the ending. Most of it is a virtual note-for-note rip-off of David Arnold's theme to the movie "Stargate." And, ironically enough, the "Stargate" theme was based off of a motif from the finale to Shostakovich's Seventh Symphony. Man, that one musical phrase has a good life-span!

IsnipeWithAknife · Post by **IsnipeWithAknife** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:30 pm

i notice williams reuses alot of his work. like parts of the newer star wars sound track sound like home alone 2, harry potter, and one track sounds so like a saving private ryan theme. personally i dont like john williams that much... like his music from minority report. some john williams stufff sound good but i dont really have a broad view of music to know where he steals from

formermarcher · Post by **formermarcher** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:05 am

More stealing...listen to Harry Potter, then to the newer Star Wars...

IsnipeWithAknife · Post by **IsnipeWithAknife** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:20 am

yep how does tatooine relate to wizzards and magic

formermarcher · Post by **formermarcher** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:59 am

IsnipeWithAknife wrote:yep how does tatooine relate to wizzards and magic

It doesn't. But thats not music now, is it?
The music sounds the same, not the locations.

Personal · Post by **Personal** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:33 pm

Phantom Phan wrote:
LovableSheep wrote:I like Holst over Williams. Williams steals stuff from everywhere all the time, even from himself sometimes. But that's something all composers do, so I don't hate him or anything for it. I still like Williams, but I like Holst better.
True, true, but some composers (like Williams) do it more than others... I'm always amused when I hear composers borrow music from a 2nd composer, who had already borrowed it from someone else! For example...

I went and bought a Steven Reineke CD because I heard so many people here rave about "Fate of the Gods" and "Into the Raging River." Personally, I think he sucks eggs. His music is very devoid of color and depth, and sounds very amateurish. It's what I'd expect from just about any college composition major.

"Into the Raging River" was easily his best piece, but it's only a fair piece at that. I was very amused to hear the ending. Most of it is a virtual note-for-note rip-off of David Arnold's theme to the movie "Stargate." And, ironically enough, the "Stargate" theme was based off of a motif from the finale to Shostakovich's Seventh Symphony. Man, that one musical phrase has a good life-span!

Yes, I understand that. Also, lidsten to the end credits of "Independence Day" sometime. "Into the Raging River," is an exact note for note knock off of this overture. It is flippin amazing what these composers get away with these days...I mean sheesh...

formermarcher · Post by **formermarcher** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:39 pm

Personal wrote: Yes, I understand that. Also, lidsten to the end credits of "Independence Day" sometime. "Into the Raging River," is an exact note for note knock off of this overture. It is flippin amazing what these composers get away with these days...I mean sheesh...

Hey, cut them some slack. They hardly make any money off CD's or music. Everyone downloads them.

IsnipeWithAknife · Post by **IsnipeWithAknife** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:11 am

when i played into the raging river for band it sounded so familiar to independance day. i was gonna write that but then it would be really embarassing if they were the same composer

btw not everyone dls music.. sure i have dled music but i ended up buying the CD.
the only music i always like to dl and not buy a cd is band music. music we play in band stuff like that it's hard to find in stores and u cant really buy that one song.

Hostrauser · Post by **Hostrauser** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:58 am

Personal wrote:Yes, I understand that. Also, lidsten to the end credits of "Independence Day" sometime. "Into the Raging River," is an exact note for note knock off of this overture. It is flippin amazing what these composers get away with these days...I mean sheesh...

"Independence Day" was written by David Arnold... same guy who wrote "Stargate"... and "Independence Day" sounds like it was made up of "Stargate" leftovers, so yeah, that's the connection right there. Reineke's piece (the ending, at least) is a note for note rip-off of Arnold's two film scores.

Personal · Post by **Personal** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:59 pm

Phantom Phan wrote:
Personal wrote:Yes, I understand that. Also, lidsten to the end credits of "Independence Day" sometime. "Into the Raging River," is an exact note for note knock off of this overture. It is flippin amazing what these composers get away with these days...I mean sheesh...
"Independence Day" was written by David Arnold... same guy who wrote "Stargate"... and "Independence Day" sounds like it was made up of "Stargate" leftovers, so yeah, that's the connection right there. Reineke's piece (the ending, at least) is a note for note rip-off of Arnold's two film scores.

Did not realize that they were written by the same guy, but yeah, I understand the connection now. Thanks Phantom.

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