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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:03 pm 
tooweird wrote:
what do you guys think about these new "sins" that this ultra-conservative pope has just put up. regardless if you're catholic or not.
:td:


I didn't know Pope Benedict XVI made this proclamation. From what I've read it was said by Monsignor Gianfranco Girotti, the #2 guy so-to-speak for the Catholic Church.

Not only that, but this was taken out of context (like most things displayed in the media). This was said in an interview about how modern times and people need a fresh look on sins.

The interview was in L'Osservatore Romano, which you need a subscription to as I understand, so I can't link any direct articles of this interview.

What I think about this issue is that the Catholic Church should wait for more information from Rome before making assumptions of what is considered a "deadly sin."

Hostrauser wrote:
People are still paying attention to the Catholic Church? Why? :?


I find this offensive. If you don't like the Catholic religion or its teachings, fine. But, keep it to yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:02 am 
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tSz42 wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
People are still paying attention to the Catholic Church? Why? :?


I find this offensive. If you don't like the Catholic religion or its teachings, fine. But, keep it to yourself.

No. :| Simple as that.

Let's compromise. I'll keep my dislike of Christianity and Catholicism to myself... but only once those who *DO* like the Catholic religion and its teachings keep that to themselves also. Stop picketing abortion clinics and planned parenthood and porn stores; practice whatever faith you want to but stop forcing it upon others.

Once religions stop forcing themselves upon others and trying to tell everyone else how to live I will stop protesting religions. Until then, no dice.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:08 am 
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Hostrauser wrote:
Once religions stop forcing themselves upon others and trying to tell everyone else how to live I will stop protesting religions. Until then, no dice.
Seconded.

Catholocism isn't a race, Being a Catholic, Muslim, Jain, or Flying Spaghetti Monster-ite (all equally vaild in my eyes) is a conscience philosophical choice which leaves one subject to disagreement and debate.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:01 am 
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Hostrauser wrote:
tSz42 wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
People are still paying attention to the Catholic Church? Why? :?


I find this offensive. If you don't like the Catholic religion or its teachings, fine. But, keep it to yourself.

No. :| Simple as that.

Let's compromise. I'll keep my dislike of Christianity and Catholicism to myself... but only once those who *DO* like the Catholic religion and its teachings keep that to themselves also. Stop picketing abortion clinics and planned parenthood and porn stores; practice whatever faith you want to but stop forcing it upon others.

Once religions stop forcing themselves upon others and trying to tell everyone else how to live I will stop protesting religions. Until then, no dice.



Wow, I wonder if someone who wasn’t a mod talked to YOU like that would still have his or her message up. i am not catholic but i do accept other people's views.... whether or not i agree with them.

Thanks for setting an example of how a mod is supposed to act on here.

So much hate....


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:12 am 
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cymtech wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
tSz42 wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
People are still paying attention to the Catholic Church? Why? :?


I find this offensive. If you don't like the Catholic religion or its teachings, fine. But, keep it to yourself.

No. :| Simple as that.

Let's compromise. I'll keep my dislike of Christianity and Catholicism to myself... but only once those who *DO* like the Catholic religion and its teachings keep that to themselves also. Stop picketing abortion clinics and planned parenthood and porn stores; practice whatever faith you want to but stop forcing it upon others.

Once religions stop forcing themselves upon others and trying to tell everyone else how to live I will stop protesting religions. Until then, no dice.



Wow, I wonder if someone who wasn’t a mod talked to YOU like that would still have his or her message up. i am not catholic but i do accept other people's views.... whether or not i agree with them.

Thanks for setting an example of how a mod is supposed to act on here.

So much hate....


I didn't see any hate in Hostrausers post, only a perfectly valid post. I was actually going to say basically the same thing in response to tSz42 last night, but didn't because I knew somehow someone would find it offensive. What did he say that wasn't valid though? I'm also tired of religious people (be it catholics, mormons, jews, jehovah's witnesses, etc) trying to push their views on me. I think your confusing "hate" with annoyance. I accept other people's views, but I don't want them trying to impose their views upon me, touché? Besides, I'm sure I've never seen Hostrauser delete a users post just because they disagreed with him.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:01 pm 
I found it offensive because it implies that the Catholic religion, teachings, and views are wrong and people shouldn't listen to them. He says this without any backup or valid points. If you want to make a post saying, "I think Catholics are wrong in this area" with some evidence or points to back it up. HEY! I'm all for it. You hate *insert race*? awesome!, at least back it up.

I haven't seen anyone trying to "force" others into a certain religion or views on this forum, or if people are, the mods are deleting them pretty fast. But, I did see a certain mod make the comment that people shouldn't listen to Catholics. If you want to continue protesting Catholics, fine, do it where other Catholics are doing it.

If you want to be childish and simply say "no" because I felt that your comment was offensive to me, fine.

But lets make a better compromise, a more realistic one. If you want to express your views about something then at least give some support to it or just leave the topic alone.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:30 pm 
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I agree with Aceman and Hostrauser. No hate there ... only a "your religion has offended me too" statement. And there was no implication on his part that the Catholic church was wrong ... only a question as to why people are still listening to a doctrine that is a tad out of step with the general populace.

There are many major religions throughout time who have a not-very-holy track record of preaching "do as we say, not as we do", and I think that turns a lot of people off to organized religion in general. I typically raise my shields and fire back when the membership of a church begins the Bible thumping and the "you will be damned to heck" tactics as the voice of its "God", then gets "offended" by criticism or opposing views.

And ... why "leave the topic alone"? Talking about things is how people learn and understand. Telling everyone to just (basically) "shut up" is no more constructive than "Silence! I kill you!"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:30 pm 
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cymtech wrote:
So much hate....

Don't hate the player, hate the game. :cool:

I say that partly tongue-in-cheek, but also because it is reminiscent of the religious mantra (paraphrasing here) "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin." A phrase that, to me, comes across as all talk and no action. People preach "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin," but then all of their action and vitriol are directed at the sinner, from the Inquisition to verbal abuse at abortion clinics to more subtle creation of "laws" defining marriage to a Christian ideal in order to prevent homosexual couples (and, not very long ago at all, interracial couples) from marrying (as if marriage wasn't a feature of every culture and religion on Earth; and as if the Christians were the first to invent marriage and have the right to tell everyone else how they must do it; and as if the laws of this country aren't supposed to be designed with the rights of EVERYBODY in mind, not just the rights of those who play by the rules of Religion "X"; the temerity!).


tSz42 wrote:
I found it offensive because it implies that the Catholic religion, teachings, and views are wrong and people shouldn't listen to them.

Well... yeah. I feel they are wrong (they are wrong to me) and I feel people shouldn't listen to them (I can't understand people who can accept unsupported, fantastical claims as fact).

However, I will never STOP or prevent a person from listening to them. A person can listen to whatever he/she wants.

Think of it as if someone asked me if they should read a certain book, and I said, "no, that book sucks." That's not offensive. They're still free to ignore me and read the book.

tSz42 wrote:
He says this without any backup or valid points. If you want to make a post saying, "I think Catholics are wrong in this area" with some evidence or points to back it up. HEY! I'm all for it. You hate *insert race*? awesome!, at least back it up.

Why? We aren't arguing facts here, we're arguing opinion, belief, faith. To me, Catholicism makes all of their claims without any backup or valid points. They can't prove that Lust will send you to hell; they can't even prove hell exists. But they're still adamant in teaching their followers to live and behave a certain way, "just because."

I can't prove hell DOESN'T exist, either. But logic dictates the burden of proof to lie with the claimant: a statement is false until PROVEN true. Otherwise, how else could we separate fact from fiction? I (or anyone else) could say anything I wanted to and it would automatically become fact? That's madness.

Example: the element aspergyiaz, undetectable by science, is the cause of all cancer.

Prove that statement wrong. Of course you can't. No more than I can prove heaven and hell don't exist. But hopefully you at least understand a little why I feel the burden of proof lies with the claimant.

Nor is popularity is not a deciding factor of fact versus fiction or fact versus opinion. Human beings tend to be impressed by large numbers and repetition: get enough people saying the same thing enough times and it becomes accepted as fact even without proof. One person making unbelievable claims is a lunatic, but a million people making unbelievable claims is a religion? Why? A million people making the same claim does not make that claim true. An alternate possibility is that you might have a group of a million lunatics on your hands, after all. ;)

You take me to task for my "unsupported" criticisms of Catholicism/Christianity; but, in a way, I'm only protesting religion's unsupported criticisms of humanity.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:38 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:59 pm 
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i dont remember...... but didnt we decide not to discuss religion on WOP at some point?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:39 pm 
cymtech wrote:
i dont remember...... but didnt we decide not to discuss religion on WOP at some point?


No clue, but I'm glad this thread hasn't been locked....yet.

*edit*

And thank you Hostrauser for elaborating on the issue. Your statement by itself was not offensive, but that smiley tipped the scales for me. It seemed to speak volumes more than your comment alone; which is why I asked for more support.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:50 pm 
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fieldshowqueen wrote:
Telling everyone to just (basically) "shut up" is no more constructive than "Silence! I kill you!"

I really surprised that statement ^ didn't get more comments from Jeff Dunham fans.

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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:29 pm 
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fieldshowqueen wrote:
fieldshowqueen wrote:
Telling everyone to just (basically) "shut up" is no more constructive than "Silence! I kill you!"

I really surprised that statement ^ didn't get more comments from Jeff Dunham fans.

Not really a "fan" per se... but my weaknesses are cupcakes... and porn.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
tSz42 wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
People are still paying attention to the Catholic Church? Why? :?


I find this offensive. If you don't like the Catholic religion or its teachings, fine. But, keep it to yourself.

No. :| Simple as that.

Let's compromise. I'll keep my dislike of Christianity and Catholicism to myself... but only once those who *DO* like the Catholic religion and its teachings keep that to themselves also. Stop picketing abortion clinics and planned parenthood and porn stores; practice whatever faith you want to but stop forcing it upon others.

Once religions stop forcing themselves upon others and trying to tell everyone else how to live I will stop protesting religions. Until then, no dice.


no one will... even though that was a major point in one of Jesus' sermons...

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 Post subject: Re: New Sins?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Ex Nihilo wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
tSz42 wrote:
Hostrauser wrote:
People are still paying attention to the Catholic Church? Why? :?


I find this offensive. If you don't like the Catholic religion or its teachings, fine. But, keep it to yourself.

No. :| Simple as that.

Let's compromise. I'll keep my dislike of Christianity and Catholicism to myself... but only once those who *DO* like the Catholic religion and its teachings keep that to themselves also. Stop picketing abortion clinics and planned parenthood and porn stores; practice whatever faith you want to but stop forcing it upon others.

Once religions stop forcing themselves upon others and trying to tell everyone else how to live I will stop protesting religions. Until then, no dice.


no one will... even though that was a major point in one of Jesus' sermons...


But you know its rather hypocritical to say ill stop when you stop. Like a little kid...If you hafta protest the intolerance of the more radical elements of the church, but why argue about the afterlife. After all we can't assuredly know either way, and if it makes people feel better than is it really a bad thing?


And btw i love the jeff dunham comment.

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