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 Post subject: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:43 am 
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So I had the opportunity to watch the Walnut, CA and RCC DCI Show. My first thought was, Why don't all the So Cal Open Corps merge together and make one big corp? Seem like a lot of time and energy is spent on 50kids (if their lucky). Why not join forces?

Can't a Circus, a love story, and some bugs get along?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:49 am 
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My humble opinion is if they did merge, there would be so many kids not able to march with a corp. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the average corp is about 150-180 instruments, and 40-50 guard. So for every guard that merges with another, there's 200+ kids that loose the opportunity to march.

BTW .. heading to Pasadena and Vista next weekend CAN'T WAIT! My first drum corp shows!! Been to plenty of High School competitions, but cannot wait to see these groups!

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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Guard-Dad wrote:
My humble opinion is if they did merge, there would be so many kids not able to march with a corp. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the average corp is about 150-180 instruments, and 40-50 guard. So for every guard that merges with another, there's 200+ kids that loose the opportunity to march.

BTW .. heading to Pasadena and Vista next weekend CAN'T WAIT! My first drum corp shows!! Been to plenty of High School competitions, but cannot wait to see these groups!


(sarcasm on) Oh, because those corps that JustGeo are talking about are sooooo huge. (sarcasm off) Sorry. I think this would be a smart move for a couple of them. It would be a much better experience for the kids. I myself would rather be part of a 60 member horn line then a 15 member horn line. But..this merging idea JustGeo is talking about would require lots of people to swallow their pride. It would also enable the corps to have larger staffs and for some of them to actually pay their staff members.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:50 am 
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I just typed three responses to this and none were appropriate for general consumption. :oops2:

I'll just say I agree with Justin


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm 
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A merge isn't feasible or desirable for various reasons.

What you're asking for is to fold corps and combine membership. Perhaps, if each of the corps' philosophies were the same, a merge could work. But each has a different outlook and approach that are often night and day. You can't see this distinction from the stands. It isn't all about ego. And ultimately, it's not about winning shows. The ego thing comes into play when you talk about building a larger corps to compete on the "national level."

And Justin, your band is 3a/4a, yes? Well, would you agree that your kids would have more fun/growth in the 5a/6a program down the road? You wouldn't, right?

In the Open Class - ensemble size is a distant consideration compared to individual growth. And as long as your educational staff is solid and providing excellent training, size doesn't matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:54 am 
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OK, RIGHT THERE! Nobody talked about winning. The phrase was "a better experience" in a bigger line, with a bigger PAID staff. I don't like when arguments gets twisted.

ANd I think the only credible point is about staff and the training. I hear this all the time. "The corps who don't aim to win" but rather "offer educational experiences" to their corps...REALLY??? Should we go down the list of "educational staff" for each corps and try to find out who's really interested in teaching? The argument I hear sometimes is that the "big boys get all the talent so they don't have to teach very much" and the "little guys get younger, more inexperienced kids so the teaching has to be far greater." That is a load of HUEY. Corps that get good kids actually SPEND A TON OF MONEY on staff. And look who they get! The best in the country.

A bigger corps would mean greater revenue (or for some, just A REVENUE) which would allow a longer tour, a new truck, some staff, all that stuff. I know from a band perspective each time we get 10 more kids to join paying fees, we can o A LOT MORE stuff. Does a 6A band get a better experience than my 2A band? More clinicians, more travel, newer instruments (we buy a lot of used) more experienced staff...we work every day to increase enrollment and add "Services".

I think the idea presented about joining forces would be great, but too many "Mullets" in too many organizations would need to get out of the way and quit living the "Glory Days".


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:54 am 
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BD94Euph wrote:
OK, RIGHT THERE! Nobody talked about winning. The phrase was "a better experience" in a bigger line, with a bigger PAID staff. I don't like when arguments gets twisted.



Thanks Tom! I said nothing about winning. My comments we're all geared towards education and staffing. It's a simple numbers game.

The more kids you get = the more revenue brought in
The more revenue brought in = the more *stuff*

The more kids also = a larger denominator to divide expenses by

Like Laura, I typed a long reply and just deleted because I know that it won't get us anywhere (see, I'm learning).

But I will answer the questions above.

1) What size is my program?
4A in WBA

2) Do I think the kids would have a better experience in a 5A/6A groups?

There are two parts to this answer:
1) In a different band that is 5A/6A. Nope. I don't believe they would. Why do you ask? Because there is a sense of pride and family that is developed in my organization. And over the course of a student's 4 years in my program they will grow to become an amazing person because of my staff's teaching and their experiences within.

2) Would they have a better experience if MY group was bigger? My answer to that is YES! Just as Tom said, some directors are content with the size of their program, some have the desire for it to grow. I want it to grow, and so do my students, because we believe that our organization does good things for students and they get a lot out of it. I would like to offer that experience to more people. (Ok..and yes..maybe kick a little @$$ along the way).


And no..that lost comment did not imply winning. It implied putting on an incredible kick-butt performance that you can be proud of and gets the audience out of their seats.

Any more questions? And from my perspective it seems like you're getting defensive. Would you like to identify yourself so we know where you're coming from?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:12 pm 
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I agree, combining corps together to get a better experience is cool. Winning is not everything and thats exactly what i teach my kids.

Im sure this wont happen but hopefully more kids can get involved into these programs. It would also help if the state would support music in the high schools so programs dont go from a 3A band to a no A band.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:24 am 
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Hey all. I didn't say there was more teaching done at the Open class level. I will say, having taught in Open and World, the teaching done at each is very different. Basic elements in Open. In World we get to teach performance a whole lot more. I also don't deny the math that more kids equal more money equals a paid staff.

Restating my main point... It isn't feasible or desirable for the activity in general to merge these corps. As you say Justin, you believe there are great things happening in your program - even if it's smaller and less successful than the band down the road. You'd of course rather maintain your philosophy and grow your ensemble - and this is exactly how the corps feel about their programs.

The local corps clearly need to do a better job of recruiting. But a merge isn't the answer.

Grouchy out!


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:59 am 
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BD94Euph wrote:
... too many "Mullets" in too many organizations would need to get out of the way and quit living the "Glory Days".


Wow, apparently a lot of guys from the late '80's/early 90's are still out there!


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:39 pm 
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grouchy wrote:
Hey all. I didn't say there was more teaching done at the Open class level. I will say, having taught in Open and World, the teaching done at each is very different. Basic elements in Open. In World we get to teach performance a whole lot more. I also don't deny the math that more kids equal more money equals a paid staff.

Restating my main point... It isn't feasible or desirable for the activity in general to merge these corps. As you say Justin, you believe there are great things happening in your program - even if it's smaller and less successful than the band down the road. You'd of course rather maintain your philosophy and grow your ensemble - and this is exactly how the corps feel about their programs.

The local corps clearly need to do a better job of recruiting. But a merge isn't the answer.

Grouchy out!


Before you go ahead and start flaming my group and challenging the success of my ensemble..i suggest you identify yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:21 pm 
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grouchy wrote:
As you say Justin, you believe there are great things happening in your program - even if it's smaller and less successful than the band down the road.

Let's play nice before a padlock gets placed on the thread, okay?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm 
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At least someone's showing us why they've named themselves "grouchy". :D

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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:42 am 
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I wasn't speaking about your group in particular, Justin, but small programs comparative to larger programs - as I've never seen your band, just John's winter line. Tom brought up the desirability of having 6a resources over 2a resources and you stated that your preference would be to grow your ensemble within your philosophy. I agree that this is the appropriate take and made the comparison that Open class corps feel the same way about their programs - making a merge unfeasible.

No flames, just words.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought of the week.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:09 am 
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Because bigger is alllllllllllllllllllllllways better....

:roll:

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