Is it fair for one person to always be first chair?

Topics centered more on music performance

Moderator: Hostrauser

User avatar
BHC123
New Recruit
New Recruit
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Contact:

boo hoo u don't have first

Post by BHC123 » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:30 pm

rotating chairs has got to be the worst thing i've ever heard. instead of helping the group u'd only be hurting it more. put the better ppl in the better chair becuz they are that good. they ppl that aren't that good and want that chair TOO BAD!! its not the good ppl's fault that u aren't skilled enough to take the chair by playing instead of pity. so stop complaining and start practicing more, MAYBE thats why they have first chair. but if u wanna be selfish and bring down the whole band then by all means do rotating chairs. i'm soo sick of hearing i want to play first!!! cuz its always the horrible players that say it.
Our Greatest Glory Lies Not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall

did u hear what happened in mexico today??
2 cars crashed and 500 ppl died!!

phlpngeek04
New Recruit
New Recruit
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:16 am
Location: Palmdale, CA
Contact:

Re: boo hoo u don't have first

Post by phlpngeek04 » Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:09 am

BHC123 wrote:rotating chairs has got to be the worst thing i've ever heard. instead of helping the group u'd only be hurting it more. put the better ppl in the better chair becuz they are that good. they ppl that aren't that good and want that chair TOO BAD!! its not the good ppl's fault that u aren't skilled enough to take the chair by playing instead of pity. so stop complaining and start practicing more, MAYBE thats why they have first chair. but if u wanna be selfish and bring down the whole band then by all means do rotating chairs. i'm soo sick of hearing i want to play first!!! cuz its always the horrible players that say it.
so are you saying that im a horrible player?
Cpl Fontilara
USMC
Currently at MCAS Miramar, San Diego, CA

User avatar
BHC123
New Recruit
New Recruit
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Contact:

Post by BHC123 » Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:42 pm

i didn't say u were a horrible player. i'm just saying that the good players should play the good parts and the chairs shouldn't have to switch to let everyone share in the 'glory'. those good players earned that glory through their practice and dedication, and the others that just want the part(and usually can't deliver the goods) complain until they get the part is just stupid. there should be auditions if the best players weren't already obvious.
Our Greatest Glory Lies Not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall

did u hear what happened in mexico today??
2 cars crashed and 500 ppl died!!

phlpngeek04
New Recruit
New Recruit
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:16 am
Location: Palmdale, CA
Contact:

Post by phlpngeek04 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:10 am

yeah thats true. ummm. let me give an example on why i posted this. at our last concert i finally got to play first part. the person who played second part sat next to me. (shes the one who is always first.) on one of the songs, there was a not even hard part for second. she couldnt even play that. the only reason, i think, that i always stay in the back is because she wants her friend to stay next to her and she always takes the first parts. im sorry if you cant understand this. you just have to be there to know what im talking about. :?
Cpl Fontilara
USMC
Currently at MCAS Miramar, San Diego, CA

User avatar
TMRsaxyDM
Section Leader
Section Leader
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:27 pm
Location: Tustin, CA
Contact:

Post by TMRsaxyDM » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:28 pm

to be first chair doesnt mean you just have to play the parts perfectly.. there arent any like official sections leaders durring concert (at least for our band) so the first chair person has to kinda double as the section leader.. so that could be another reason why someone would always have first chair.. the director could trust them that they will get such done and right.
Pumkin Pie Love..

SKA SKA SKA!

Cheer up emo kid... listen to ska!

Tustin High School TMR Drum Major 04-05

mightyhorn
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: Caldwell, ID.

Post by mightyhorn » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:50 pm

Where I went to high school we always had challenges on Fridays. That solved the issue you have mentioned. Also, it kept most of us practicing... who want's to loose their chair?

User avatar
copycat
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Irvine
Contact:

Post by copycat » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:17 pm

i think those 1st chairs should switch instruments 'cause being a "permanent" 1st chair is boring and switching instruments are always fun plus u can give someone else a chance to b the 1st chair :wink:
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit

HTML is OFF
BBCode is ON
Smilies are ON

User avatar
formermarcher
Grand PooBah
Grand PooBah
Posts: 3510
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:27 pm
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Contact:

Post by formermarcher » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:10 am

copycat wrote:i think those 1st chairs should switch instruments 'cause being a "permanent" 1st chair is boring and switching instruments are always fun plus u can give someone else a chance to b the 1st chair :wink:
I have to disagree. First chair is just that...first chair. The chair auditions were held and the person who is first chair did the best. I think it is totally fair for one person to have the first chair spot. They worked the hardest to get it, and if anyone wants to get first chair, then they should work for it, rather than hope that the current first chair gets moved out.

And going to another instrument...perhaps if they wnet into another band (maybe a not as advanced band) and picked up a new instrument then, while keeping up first chair on the instrument they are the best on.

If you want to see a new first chair after awhile, then you'd should get practicing to replace the current first chair.
"It is your destiny to be the leader who uses this event to rally a city, a nation...a world"

"Its not what you do or what you say, but HOW you do it that matters the most"

UC: Riverside, Class Of 2007

User avatar
copycat
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Irvine
Contact:

Post by copycat » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:42 pm

haha to me switching instruments is fun 'cause i love challenges. well i must agree that most first chairs will not switch because they work hard to get to that place and they don't want to start everything over again
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit

HTML is OFF
BBCode is ON
Smilies are ON

vmbronco
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:15 pm
Location: La Jolla, California

1st Chair

Post by vmbronco » Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:16 pm

There are only 3 people in my section and 2 of us are about equally matched in skill level but better in different areas. I recently lost my 1st chair and have been working my butt off to get it back. At that time i knew 6 scales from middle school and 1 month later, i knew all 12, could play them in velocity, interval, and in 43 seconds. Not to mention i had improved my playing abilities all around. Instead of talking to this girl or your director about who is better now, improve any flaws you might have and put no doubt in your directors mind that you are the best. ok bye :roll:
"If I had a bazooka, I would blow a hole in the wall between us. If either or both of us survived, I'd ask you 'What's a girl like you doing in a place like this?'"
- Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
MoophoniumMan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:47 am
Location: Davis, CA
Contact:

Musical Chairs?

Post by MoophoniumMan » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:13 pm

Hey phlpngeek04, all these people have really good points and it makes sense. I think the appropriate title for this subject would not be "Is it fair for the same person to always be first chair," but instead "What's wrong with my band director?" phlpngeek04 your problem seems to be communication with your band director and the rest of the section.

In my last year of middle school my band director got experimental. He limited it to jazz band though. When he auditioned everyone, he put the best players as second and third instead of the typical first chair. This makes sense according to the Pyramid of Sound, as the "lower" parts should be stronger. I'm not sure if that's always the best thing to do though, because typically the music written for the first chair is much more difficult than the others. As long as you have a good balance.

As for challenges, here's how my band does it. The two musicians sit in front of the group and everyone else puts their head down so they cannot see who is playing. The band director identifies, without the rest of the group knowing, the two as #1 and #2 (randomly, of course). He has each person play scales, exercises, and parts of the current music. The group then decides by a show of hands who they believe to be the better musician. The band director has no say in who will become first chair.

User avatar
altohack
Section Leader
Section Leader
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 7:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Musical Chairs?

Post by altohack » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:39 pm

vmhs_euphonium wrote:In my last year of middle school my band director got experimental. He limited it to jazz band though. When he auditioned everyone, he put the best players as second and third instead of the typical first chair. This makes sense according to the Pyramid of Sound, as the "lower" parts should be stronger. I'm not sure if that's always the best thing to do though, because typically the music written for the first chair is much more difficult than the others. As long as you have a good balance.

As for challenges, here's how my band does it. The two musicians sit in front of the group and everyone else puts their head down so they cannot see who is playing. The band director identifies, without the rest of the group knowing, the two as #1 and #2 (randomly, of course). He has each person play scales, exercises, and parts of the current music. The group then decides by a show of hands who they believe to be the better musician. The band director has no say in who will become first chair.
WOW. That's pretty nice. The challenge thing.

As for the jazz band thing, you should put a really good trumpet and trombone on fourth... maybe it's just me but the jazz bands I've been in always have trouble with that.
Once my friends were playing a duet, and the weaker one was on the top part, cuz had all the melody the top had, plus harmony. So it wasn't really working out for them, until they realized that they couldn't traditionally follow the top part, they had to follow the stronger player: the bottom.
No regrets

User avatar
MoophoniumMan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:47 am
Location: Davis, CA
Contact:

Section Placement Continued.

Post by MoophoniumMan » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:10 am

Yeah I'm not quite sure if it worked out for the best. We had a few really good trombonists that were playing the second and third part and they probably should have been playing first.

What I meant with the balance thing is this: Suppose you have 9 trumpet players (for the sake of simplicity) and 3 of them are awesome, put one on first, one on second, and one on third, instead of weakening your lower parts by putting all the good players on first. Then put the midgrade ones on first second and third, and do the same for the lower level ones. In addition to balancing out the section, it provides a learning experience for all of the trumpet players (by pairing the better ones with the mediocre ones the mediocre ones learn more) and in turn creates a better section overall.

It's all theoretical, though, and I'm not a band director. :D

User avatar
Euphoniums Rule!!!
New Recruit
New Recruit
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:30 am
Contact:

Post by Euphoniums Rule!!! » Sat May 08, 2004 9:49 pm

Ace wrote:For those who don't know what challenging is, it's this thing where we go into another room push record on this tape recorder thing and play a fast scale excercise without saying a word. Then the director listens to the tape after school and decides who wins the challenge without knowing the order of who's playing when. I think it's a fair deal.
That doesn't seem quite fair because someone could be completely competent in scale runs or could possibly cheat, not trying to say anyone is cheating but the more logical thing to do would be to record the portion of the piece that is difficult where the section is having difficulty mastering. At our school, our teacher doesn't really inforce chair placement rather band placement because we have three levels and once they're there they should be able to deal with music distribution but usually when he seats us at the beginning of the year is where our level of talent stays. I don't mind. There's only 2 people in my section and chaging seats is as simple as saying, "I'm first chair!"
Hi! I'm glad to have met you!

User avatar
kiltedfreak
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:59 pm
Location: Granada hills
Contact:

Post by kiltedfreak » Thu May 13, 2004 6:43 pm

Is only fair for one person to be first chair all the time if they deserve to be first.

Post Reply