The "Dut Dut" Song

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Post by jjmachuca » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:54 am

Just one word for this song and its the best:
Vanguarrrddddddddddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by audrizzle13 » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:34 pm

Our drum line captain last year did it to show he had power which was dumb. But this year in street comp, they told the line to do it to stay in time and to say it loud enough for the whole ensemble to hear it instead of tapping certain parts out.
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Post by Teever » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:06 pm

jjmachuca wrote:Just one word for this song and its the best:
Vanguarrrddddddddddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'Tis true, I got my first exposure to the song while working under Rob Carson, he of the Fred Sanford/Vangaurd lineage. I don't know the exact origin of it, but that would likely be part of it.

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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:32 pm

And what's more amazing...not ONE person has provided a good enough reason for duts to be said at all by any drum line anywhere on this planet.

Ergo, all drum lines should STOP.

And yes...drummers...don't tell me about "staying in tempo" or "helps us to know when to bring the sticks out". :shock:

I hear counting up to four (to yourself) usually helps...

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Post by nrdrummer13 » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:02 pm

I have a good reason: dutting is hardcore.

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Post by DanielE » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:06 pm

Hmmm...well...I guess you can't really stop the duts.....It's just something that's being added to the program.....no matter how much people may hate it....at least people are hitting their attacks. (or they should be if they're dutting THAT loud.) I'd rather hear loud duts and a clean attack tham no duts and a horrible attack.
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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:34 pm

DanielE wrote:Hmmm...well...I guess you can't really stop the duts.....It's just something that's being added to the program.....no matter how much people may hate it....at least people are hitting their attacks. (or they should be if they're dutting THAT loud.) I'd rather hear loud duts and a clean attack tham no duts and a horrible attack.
So you're in essence saying that:

1) Watching the drum major/conductor is not valid.

2) Having an internal metronome and learning how to use that is not valid.

3) Professional musicians who DON'T dut are not valid, even though they don't have "dirty attacks" and would be laughed out of the professional world if they DID dut.

You see, "dirty attacks" is not because of NOT dutting. It's because of bad musicianship and crappy instruction. Dutting is a nuisance. It's not musical. And it's distracting. So is tapping your foot (for all you wind players--just so I'm not accused of beating up on drummers.

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Post by DanielE » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:17 pm

So you're in essence saying that:

1) Watching the drum major/conductor is not valid.

2) Having an internal metronome and learning how to use that is not valid.

3) Professional musicians who DON'T dut are not valid, even though they don't have "dirty attacks" and would be laughed out of the professional world if they DID dut.

You see, "dirty attacks" is not because of NOT dutting. It's because of bad musicianship and crappy instruction. Dutting is a nuisance. It's not musical. And it's distracting. So is tapping your foot (for all you wind players--just so I'm not accused of beating up on drummers.
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! Holy crap, I never said any of that, nor was I trying to imply that. I never said "they aren't valid".

And don't all drum corps dut? Maybe not as loud as high schools (Hell, we are over doing it...namely screaming it.) Teever said they used to "sing it to themselves" and making a "don't dut EXTREMELY loud" argument. Makes sense. You're turning this into a "don't dut at all" argument.

At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. You can't hear the tone of someones voice over the computer. I may have misunderstood.
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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:24 pm

DanielE wrote:
So you're in essence saying that:

1) Watching the drum major/conductor is not valid.

2) Having an internal metronome and learning how to use that is not valid.

3) Professional musicians who DON'T dut are not valid, even though they don't have "dirty attacks" and would be laughed out of the professional world if they DID dut.

You see, "dirty attacks" is not because of NOT dutting. It's because of bad musicianship and crappy instruction. Dutting is a nuisance. It's not musical. And it's distracting. So is tapping your foot (for all you wind players--just so I'm not accused of beating up on drummers.
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! Holy crap, I never said any of that, nor was I trying to imply that. I never said "they aren't valid".

And don't all drum corps dut? Maybe not as loud as high schools (Hell, we are over doing it...namely screaming it.) Teever said they used to "sing it to themselves" and making a "don't dut EXTREMELY loud" argument. Makes sense. You're turning this into a "don't dut at all" argument.

At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. You can't hear the tone of someones voice over the computer. I may have misunderstood.
I may buy for the essence of "getting along" the don't do it so loud argument, but my point remains. I don't see the musicality of it. I only see the annoyance of it.

And yeah, I was pretty clear...you were IN ESSENCE saying what I posted. I didn't say you actually said it. So...you sort of answered my points. If you're NOT implying what I posted, then why are drumlines doing it??

Circular argument ensuing...because it helps us attack cleanly.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

And don't take it personal Daniel...I'm just saying...

:D

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Post by DanielE » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:56 pm

If you're NOT implying what I posted, then why are drumlines doing it??
Because not all high schoolers are professional muscians.
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Post by MinCook » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:19 pm

Heres my 2 cents:
1) Watching the drum major/conductor is not valid.
Most of the Time when I dhut loud(er) is in the lot, were there is no DM or a Dr. we dut to stay on the same page tempo wise. It is really helpful when your in the lot dutting the rests with 17 other drummers around you so that we could all be on the same page mentally.
2) Having an internal metronome and learning how to use that is not valid.
In essense Dutting is to keep us on the same page tempo wise, not to substitute the use our "internal metronome". a fraction of a bpm difference could not be desireable.
You see, "dirty attacks" is not because of NOT dutting. It's because of bad musicianship and crappy instruction.
But dutting can improve your attacks, no?
And what's more amazing...not ONE person has provided a good enough reason for duts to be said at all by any drum line anywhere on this planet.
Not on WOP, but then again not all seasoned percussionist think posting is a valuable use of time :wink: .
Ergo, all drum lines should STOP.
Umm, with all due respect... I think us percussionists would like take opinions on WOP and commands from our staff even if you think it is "crappy instruction"
And yes...drummers...don't tell me about "staying in tempo" or "helps us to know when to bring the sticks out".

I hear counting up to four (to yourself) usually helps...
See the thing about counting is your articulation is not as precise as dutting. Dutting has been evolved to become a more staccato sound

In the end I totally agree about the extraneous sounds of us "un-professional Musicians", and we do get chastise about it from the powers that be. But I do not that quitting dutting in all is a good idea. I think of dutting as a means to stay on the same mind track. What I have learned from my instructors is that the part of the key to playing clean is to focus and always stay on the same page. Of course there is no musical value being put into our dutting, but dirty beats are not exactly contributing either. A lesson, in conclusion, that I can take from this thread to lower the volume of our duts to maybe a "2 feet" audio range, where it could benefit us without being heard in the stands. There may be no right answer or wrong answer to this thread so" dont take anything personal, im just saying." :wink:
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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:42 pm

Sort of getting into a circular argument with this, but that's cool. I expected it. You made some good points Minh--thank you. And yes, I FULLY agree with you that since it's apparent I'm going to lose the argument, that perhaps a self-discipline approach to drumlines could be started whereas we think about the "2 foot rule" (I was willing to give you guys FIVE feet!).

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Post by MinCook » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:47 pm

Thank God for WOP, where we can learn from the people that are ticking us in the Box and opinions from VK vets (other than my band director :lol: ).
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Post by Bobus » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:40 pm

if they ever told our line that dhutting affects the performance in a negative way then we would instantly take it out but, no one has and therefore we have kept it in. I have many arguements for dhutting but, im to lazy to say anymore.
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Post by geefunk1026 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:17 pm

The different sound sources you hear on a football field can be VERY distracting. The drum majors hands could be "almost" with something musical happening on the field in front of the drumline, and often causes tempo confusion (sometimes drum majors are unclear with their beat and/or conducting with what they hear too, but that's a whole new problem). Dutting is a wonderful thing to get all the drummers on the same page as far as tempo goes keeping them together as a single unit.
Many things should be happening on the field to ensure togetherness & clarity that the audience shouldn't know about. Dutting, Counting aloud etc.. have become a standard in todays marching world. Dutting is creating more consistancy, and is a wonderful thing for audiences until it is audible beyond the sideline.

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