Drum Line Staging--21st Century Style

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Ryan H. Turner
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Drum Line Staging--21st Century Style

Post by Ryan H. Turner » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:12 pm

I'm curious about something--and perhaps I may have my observations validated here a little. Or I'll be called in idiot (as long as you have supporting proof of my idiocy). For those that don't know, I've been writing drill for quite awhile. I have a good eye (or so I think and so I've been told) for visual stuff--performance wise and design wise. Been doing a lot of judging, especially in the past 5 years so I'm developing an eye from "THAT" perspective as opposed to the person in the creative or teaching mode.

That being said, I was the announcer for the 47 band all day and most of all night marching band extravaganza we call the Savanna Field Tournament. I had a bird's eye view of all that happened. During the times I was actually cognizant and not in a fatigue-induced, drool-dripping-out-of-my-mouth stupor, I was attempting to "judge" bands, at least in my head. I noticed a PERPONDERANCE of drum lines of ALL calibers staged "in the back" quite a bit. Now...let's get serious about this for a minute...

1. If drum lines are staged in the back in order to provide the "correct balance" sound-wise (in that attempt to emulate in some way the "concert band" set up on a stage of moving people), why would a drum judge EVER say on the tape (or a G.E. judge for that matter) that the drum line was "staged to the back a lot" (with the associated negative connotation that that entails)? Is the visual THAT important for a comment like that?

2. If drumlines were to be more integrated into the drill, that would require more musicality on the part of A) the band director, and B) the drum instructor, which to be honest, would actually require the drum instructor to "check his/her ego at the door" and realize the need for proper balance within the context of the entire sound of the ensemble. Not only that, it would require, let's again be honest, a STRONG director that is IN CHARGE of the entire ensemble sound, henceforth, having the ability and strength to tell the drums (i.e., the instructor as well) to "back off" the sound. Is that NOT happening for some reason in these bands that are making drum line "march in the back"???

3. Would a GE or drum or music judge readily appreciate the intergration AND successful blend and balance of a drum line that is "in the drill" as opposed to "in the back"??? (This is not a hidden slam on any judging association--more of an open-ended question as to see if anyone has received similar comments in similar situations where credit IS given).

4. Do judges, or more importantly, SHOULD judges possibly take into consideration the possibility that the drum line in question is too young or immature to be ABLE to be intergrated either from a visual ability or musical ability? And how would a judge KNOW?? Eeeeeeeek...ain't that THE question?

I think that's that...discuss away....and yeah...

playclean1

Post by playclean1 » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:39 pm

WELL RYAN,,,,, Here is my 2 cents on this matter

1. If drum lines are staged in the back in order to provide the "correct balance" sound-wise (in that attempt to emulate in some way the "concert band" set up on a stage of moving people), why would a drum judge EVER say on the tape (or a G.E. judge for that matter) that the drum line was "staged to the back a lot" (with the associated negative connotation that that entails)? Is the visual THAT important for a comment like that?
yes !!!!
2. If drumlines were to be more integrated into the drill, that would require more musicality on the part of A) the band director, and B) the drum instructor, which to be honest, would actually require the drum instructor to "check his/her ego at the door" and realize the need for proper balance within the context of the entire sound of the ensemble. Not only that, it would require, let's again be honest, a STRONG director that is IN CHARGE of the entire ensemble sound, henceforth, having the ability and strength to tell the drums (i.e., the instructor as well) to "back off" the sound. Is that NOT happening for some reason in these bands that are making drum line "march in the back"???


Checking my ego at the door for this one :?

This is almost always a comunication prob between the band director, staff and the drill writer. the best way to make sure this never happens is to have ALL the music down on paper before you ask to get staged and make sure that ALL counts and dynamics are set and the drill writer is not left to guess or stage the drums on his own. Nothing worse then having the music at PPP and the line getting staged up front, or a big impact and the line staged behind the back hash outside the 20, or as a designer getting, a score with no concept of what the focus is and later being told that is not what we wanted. communicate folks
3. Would a GE or drum or music judge readily appreciate the intergration AND successful blend and balance of a drum line that is "in the drill" as opposed to "in the back"???


yes yes yes. as long as the intergraded line is playing as well or better then the line that is always in the back, it is much more Demanding to execute all split up ,, and the MUSIC judge will ALWAYS say the drums are too loud no matter what .. Ican't tell you how many times I have herd on yhe music tapes, ( if the drums can be herd then they are to loud).
4. Do judges, or more importantly, SHOULD judges possibly take into consideration the possibility that the drum line in question is too young or immature to be ABLE to be intergrated either from a visual ability or musical ability?


no, that is what the criteria is for.

CRITERIA A standard of judging; any approved or established rule or test, by which facts, principles opinions, and conduct are tried in forming a correct judgment respecting them).



I think that's that...discuss away....and yeah..
.

PUTTING ON MY FLAME SUIT, 8-)

AL PERALTA

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Drumline staging

Post by Teever » Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:16 pm

Ryan,
You pose many well-stated questions, and I will attempt to answer as many as I can from my perspective.

As far as staging drumlines in the back (and I'll assume here that you're referring to the battery only, although I have seen a few pits mistakenly put there - that's another discussion), it appears to me that this is done for several reasons. One might be to improve balance, which this does often help. Another might just be lack of imagination. Some of the problems this staging presents are as follows:
1) Front to back pulse issues - especially if the director is constantly telling the pit "watch me, watch me!", which only serves to make the problem worse, since spund travels rather slowly from front to back, hence the pit is always ahead. The winds which are staged towards the front may also experience this difficulty if they are not taught to "listen back" for pulse when the battery is playing from behind them. This is the #2 problem identified on the Performance section of the percussion sheet every year!
2)Awkward staging when the battery is brought forward for some sert of featured moment - the drill writers (not all, but many) inevitably will then send the battery around the band in some odd way, or send them directly through the winds and gaurd in a manner that just appears to be an afterthought.
3) Projection problems. Yes, sometimes it's hard to hear the battery!!! Apparently many writers, instructors and directors are not completely aware that not all drums are created equal when it comes to volume production. Basically, one mid to low-range bass drum can project its sound much farther than one snare drum, or one set of tenors. A small snare line (4 or less) is difficult to hear from behind the back hash when the entire band is playing. Even in a 6A band with a larger snare line of 6 - 8 (like Diamond Bar or Arcadia, just for example) it can be hard to pick out what's being played in the tutti sections. As a result, you can't always give credit (musically) where credit might be due in terms of both musical content and balance. As a matter of fact, this hurts in terms of "Section Balance" on the percussion sheet.
4) Visual Impact (a sub caption on the Percussion sheet) -yep, it's just harder to see what they're doing way back there, especially if they're behind sousaphones!
So you see, where they are staged has much more to do with the musical issues that the visual ones (although that is somewhat of a concern.)

As far as lines being placed in the back because they are just too loud, I'm sure it happens but just can't see why. When all you have to do is tell a kid "This is how high piano is, this is how high mezzo forte is, and this is how high forte is. Play anything differently and you're going back to the pad." I just can't imagine why anyone wouldn't take the time to fix such an important problem. Balance is the #1 problem addressed on the performance sheets every year! Now you used the word "integration" in your question, so I should also point out that many lines who are staged in the back have also been placed there with such little aesthetic appeal that it is a noticable distractionb from everything else going on. Keep in mind that one of the key points on the percussion sheet is how the drumline is designed and performs "in relation to the total ensemble".

As far as appreciating (and by this, I take it you mean crediting with points) the tasteful placement of a drumline which can balance to the winds - it is a major quality that is looked for in a "box 1" Effect criteria on the percussion sheet. To me, it is one of the benchmark qualities of a superior line and program design. I often comment on how well a line is able to balance in challenging situations (eg; in front of the winds, off to one side, spread about the field, etc.) and am able to credit it on all three portions of the sheet - Repertoire, Performance, and Effect!

It is often very easy to tell when a line is being challenged - especially when you have the opportunity to judge from October 4th through December 11 - and clues are evident through their visual, as well as musical performance. This may be addressed in the "Range" subcaption on the percussion sheet. Music and visual design at an appropriate level for the ensemble is always preferrable. It is not difficult, in my opinion, to "integrate" them - it just takes a little more imagination and effort perhaps. Sometimes it is as simple as changing a straight line to an arc, or moving the line another 10 yards, or even facing them the same way as the winds, etc. Even a completely grounded line can be effectively integrated. Integration in and of itself does not equate with difficulty.

Hope that helps to answer the first barrage of questions!

Here's another question - Why are lines being staged up front during the "ballads", especially if they're sent there just to stand and face backwards? Downstage center is a strong visual position - not the place to be if you're not going to be involved in anything.

Here's one more - do pit performers EVER watch the video of their show and notice what they look like when they're NOT playing? From the looks of it, you'd think many of them were under the impression that they dissapear the moment they're not playing anything, yet they're still right there on the edge of the stage! I've even had to comment on pit performers carrying on conversations in the middle of a show when they weren't playing.

Ryan H. Turner
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Post by Ryan H. Turner » Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:46 pm

Well, I just heard from two of the top percussion voices in the region--how's THAT for service??? Thank you gentlemen...appreciate your words.

The quandry I guess that got me here is my drill writing (and THANK YOU AL!!! You just nailed it--and we could discuss our years together "you know where" in DIRECT relation to the "lack of a musical idea" of what I was supposed to do at times) in regards to drum lines. I'm working a lot at Wilson, teaching and of course writing. Their drum line (battery specifically--thank you Steve) has not necessarily been overwhelming strong the last couple of years, and this year, I decided to really concentrate my focus with them specifically to be 1) the pulse center of the group, and hence, "behind" more often than not, and 2) making the drill relatively easier for them specifically so their instructor, Brian Santner (a talented drum guy himself and student of the Dave Ramirez School of Doing Things), could concentrate on musical development of the kids. Smart drill writing? I would think. Educationally based? I'm still thinking that. Lazy "dot" guy on my part? No, definitely not. But that would be the IMPRESSION wouldn't it?

I got the generalized comment "Well the drum line sure is not a part of the drill...." from an otherwise well meaning G.E. judge sort and it sent Ryan H. Turner into another head-bang-against-wall moment (I have several every season as I walk that fine line between entertainment and competition with my gig as the "dot" guy).

So anyway--that's the motivation behind my post. Again, doing the juggling act between thinking of the "proper" demand for the kids, and trying to be creative (read=competitive) with what I do.

More for me to learn apparently--when does the LEARNING STOP!?!?!?!?! :lol:

Just when I thought I had it alllllllllllllllllllll figured out....

Thank you again you guys....

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Post by Kybo_Ren » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:00 am

I'm printing out this thread and turning a copy in to my band director, percussion instructor, and drill coordinator. :lol:

playclean1

Post by playclean1 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:13 pm

RyanTurner wrote = More for me to learn apparently--when does the LEARNING STOP!?!?!?!?! :lol:

well, I was always taught that the learning process stops as soon as the first shovel of dirt hits your final resting BOX " 6 ".

al peralta
GO TROOP !!!!

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