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 Post subject: alright, what about "gaurds" in drumline shows?
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:03 pm 
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what do you think about schools who have "gaurds" in their show?

i mean, isnt it about drumline?
can the drumline play in the colorgaurd shows????

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:20 pm 
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If you happened to be on WOP for last year's indoor season, you woulda seen how it was very controversial.

For me, I have mixed feelings about it.

Pros:
-it gives a small gaurd a chance to perform because the schools funds cannot support them for a CG circuit

-Adds color and visual to a show

Cons:
-from what I observed the visual score of the shows that have colorgaurd is about the same (no significant) difference than their division mates. The Judges do not give you that much visual credit than you think for having gaurd.
the truth is in the recaps

So it depends how you look at it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:52 pm 
I think it's a good idea to have a small amount of guard in a druim show, but remember not to sacrifice any misucality. IF you can tie in guard with the music, you'll have a great show. But remember to focus on your one goal: the actualy percussion.

I also think it would be kind of cool to incorporate a drum line in a guard show.. maybe have the guard do their routine to the drum line's music.
THe only downsides to that that I can see are:
1) People who wanted to do guard and drum line wouldn't be able to
2) It would cost a LOT of money to do both circuits..


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 3:30 pm 
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I am in both percussion and colorguard this year. the problem that I have with a guard in the percussion shows is just that the guard doesn't get credit. Most GE judges aren't qualified to judge a guard. Sure, they can say "oo all the flag spun together and that looked good" But there really is a lot more technical things that can be addressed to the guard.

I think it would be totally cool if there was a judging curcuit that incorporated drumline and colorguard, but there isn't.

But if these lines want to put in the guard, that's totally up to them.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:22 pm 
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Haha, i bet a lot of controversy came from our jazz show...with the dancers and sax and such. Fun show to do.

But yeah. We do incorporate dancers, which i really enjoy, because it adds so much visually, especially in more subdued, ballad-esque sections.

And i really do like colorguards in dl shows. It's cool to see the 2 work together.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:48 pm 
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The idea has good intentions, like enhancing visual, but ADLA judges or maybe other judges are usually very limited in judging the colorgaurd. I got to admit it is a real crowd pleaser to the general audience.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 7:56 pm 
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I have no problems with guards in drumline shows as long as the guards fit into the show. For example, Hawthorne always used guards in their show and they always added great effects to the show from the visual point of view. Especially this year's Hawthorne show with their nice bug outfit added alot of GE as well as to the visual score.

Ofcourse, I think there are drumlines that use guards to cover up the lack of their drumming skills too. I don't think it's intentional, but crowding the floor with guards so that you can barely see the drumline playing their music is frustrating and uncomfortable. I know it's about the sound quality, but the point of a show is to see and hear the drumming.


Last edited by PrideofOklahoma on Wed May 19, 2004 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Guards ?
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:06 am 
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IM SORRY I JUST WAT TO REPLY ARE YOU SAYING WE ARE HIDING OUR DRUMMING BEHIND THE GUARD AT HAWTHORNE ? YOU ARE FROM PALOS VERDES RIGHT? EXPLAIN YOUR SELF PLEASE DONT WANT TO JUMP TO WRONG CONCLUSIONS THANKS HHS1.


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 Post subject: Re: Guards ?
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:16 am 
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hhs1 wrote:
IM SORRY I JUST WAT TO REPLY ARE YOU SAYING WE ARE HIDING OUR DRUMMING BEHIND THE GUARD AT HAWTHORNE ? YOU ARE FROM PALOS VERDES RIGHT? EXPLAIN YOUR SELF PLEASE DONT WANT TO JUMP TO WRONG CONCLUSIONS THANKS HHS1.


Whoa there...watch out for the caps please!

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 Post subject: ????????????
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 11:03 am 
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dc5kazu, what are you trying to say. Have you been to a WGI show. Their are a lot of drumlines that use a colorgaurd, and are really good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And i know in ADLA all 3 judges are drummers, if you see the judges in scpa or wgi, the visual judge is a colorgaurd judge. That person looks at drill since a colorgaurd knows only but movements. You should check out some other lines out their, their is an outside world out of ADLA. I having a colorgaurd doesnt give any advantage at all. And if you can hear the dirt from a drumline because the "Flags are in the way", they you should pay more attention. Watching hands can tell you what their doing and you can see the dirt too. But if you cant hear, come on man. Were all drummers here and you should be able to hear all and any kind of dirt coming from anyone, from far or near. You dont have to look at their hands. And from what i notice, everyone who uses a colorgaurd, you can always see the drummers hands, and of course hear the clean or dirt coming out of them. You should go and check WGI when it comes around next season. See you in the lot.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 1:10 pm 
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First of all

To HHS1: I did not intend to say anything bad about Hawthorne. I brought up your line as an example of a GREAT DRUMLINE that makes an GREAT SHOW by using guards in their show. If I am not mistaken, I think I wrote positive things about Hawthorne in my previous post too. If I did not make myself clear enough, I give you my sincere apology and I will promise never to bring up your line as an example again.

To curious0811: Yes, I have seen/been to WGI shows and I'm pretty sure I know the 'outside world out of ADLA.' In fact, I have seen alot of great lines that use guards in their program. In my previous post, I did not write "ALL DRUMLINES THAT USE GUARDS" are hiding their lack of drumming. I know there are great lines that has guards in their show, and I know it's not the guards that alter the sound of a line. I am not directing my opinions to those lines that are in WGI that has great shows. What I was trying to say is, there are weaker lines that need to focus more on the music instead of the visual aspect of their show because they will never grow. Adding visual effect can be done in a shorter period of time then building up the chops of an incoming freshmen or a rookie snare. Having more exposure of the music will give the line more pressures and hypes to practice their music. In my band, many of the horn players hide behind the sound of the other sections, but if they had their own feature that exposed them out in the field I'm sure they would practice alot more. If my line had guards in our show, our freshmens would've never shown such improvements. My line is very weak, and this year was almost experimental, to give the incoming members more experience to what a drumline show is like. If we had guards they may have learned a wrong way to cope with their lack of chops because it can be tempting to hide when they're still inexperienced. Our show this year did not do so well, but I believe the exposures they got from the structure of the show gave them the motivation to practice more to sound better. I'm sure you, as an instructor, has much more experience with this subject, but this is my opinion and this is what I believe in.

I hope I cleared up any misunderstandings and I hope people understood my reasons behind my opinion. This post and the my previous post is not intended to mock any lines and I am just trying to give my honest opinion about guards. If there are further questions, or if you disagree with me strongly, feel free to send an e-mail or IM me.


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 Post subject: Visual Judges
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 1:50 pm 
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While it is true that most ADLA judges are percussionists, we do actively recruit those with a visual background to judge the visual caption. Those on that caption will usually have experience in writing/teaching drill/marching techniques, colorgaurd, or dance. Several judge colorgaurd for other associations.
Granted, it is difficult to get the best people on all captions, and the visual caption is the one which we need judges for the most.

If you're looking for "gaurd specific" comments on your performance, however, you won't get it for one reason - its not in any of the criteria. You will get comments on how performers are performing in regards to uniformity and overall effectiveness, but this is a drum line association - the comments are always going to be mainly directed towards how the total show works. That's one reason WGI puts more emphasis (perhaps) on gaurd technique - the "G" stands for something!

Personally, great visual performers will enhance any show. Likewise, poor visual performers can have the adverse effect!


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 Post subject: mmmmmm
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:09 pm 
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you can easly throw in colorgaurds in a show that cant do anyting. just the way a drummer drums. You gamble with rookies period. My junior high for next, were adding dancers/colorgaurd. They have never done this before. It could be a total nightmare, yet its also a really good experience. Some colorgaurds that are in a drumline show is because they dont have enough money to send their colorgaurd off to do their own shows. Or they dont have staff for it. At my junior high their isent feeders for colorgaurd, just drums and band. So it would be nice to have everything come in. My middle school is gonna be pretty decent next year, and im gonna gamble with a group of dancers/colorgaurd so they get the experince as well.

now the judges stand point of view. SCPA and WGI always has real visual judges, no percussionist. A lot of groups get nailed hard because of that. Hawthorne did. We had a really hard season with the visual judge. But music wise we were killing everyone. And then in ADLA we won in visual and won world championships. weird....................but maybe if we just focus in each others section and enjoyed everyones show we will soon see a lot more colorguards/dancers in drumline competitons.

good luck to all, see you next season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: mmmmmm
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:34 pm 
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curios0811 wrote:
you can easly throw in colorgaurds in a show that cant do anyting. just the way a drummer drums. You gamble with rookies period. My junior high for next, were adding dancers/colorgaurd. They have never done this before. It could be a total nightmare, yet its also a really good experience. Some colorgaurds that are in a drumline show is because they dont have enough money to send their colorgaurd off to do their own shows. Or they dont have staff for it. At my junior high their isent feeders for colorgaurd, just drums and band. So it would be nice to have everything come in. My middle school is gonna be pretty decent next year, and im gonna gamble with a group of dancers/colorgaurd so they get the experince as well.


It's always a good thing to try something new, and I respect you for your courage. Just remember that it's all worth the try because you know this will be a great opportunity to give them a fun time in the line. :D Good luck with your middle school kids!


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 Post subject: cool
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 9:07 am 
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Hey thanks, hope they do decent next year. good luck to all.

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