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Who will win NCBA Open Class this winter?
Poll ended at Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:09 am
Vallejo 15%  15%  [ 3 ]
Foothill 26%  26%  [ 5 ]
Fairfield 42%  42%  [ 8 ]
other 15%  15%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 19
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:28 pm 
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I can sorta do the jist of it off the top of my memory....
Open: fairfield got champ, followed by foothill then vallejo.
scholastic: reed got champs.... and i cant remember anyone else
amateur: champ was vapac, (i dunno how) followed by someone then someone else then us...(lp/o) you know what.... this is sucking.... some please post the recaps?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:00 pm 
Congratulaions to yesterday's NCBA participants, especally to Reed and the open class competitors.

My message is in response to 8-ball's flawed argument about Hogan's drumline. Hogan recently decided to compete in the WGI circuit because of past problems with NCBA judging. Some of this may not be without fault. In fact, I do believe that they were royally screwed out of 1998 champs -- but that was LONG ago. Hogan's assumption is that WGI judges will give them more favorable placement.

Wholelottasaywhat was asking how a lower div line would fare against a first-place group in a higher division, in a different circuit. That's like asking how San Benito would do against Foothill in WGI. But 8-ball says that Hogan, who did relatively worse than Fairfield in WGI, might do BETTER in NCBA competition BECAUSE "WGI judges are trained different than NCBA judges." It seems here that 8-ball is actually saying that WGI, not NCBA judging, is flawed!

It seems that 8-ball has his or her argument confused. In any case, I will be interested to see how these and other schools compare to each other at the next WGI show.

8-ball wrote:
wholelottasaywhat? wrote:
My question to 8-Ball is how he thinks the 7th place A class drumline (Hogan) will do against the Open class 1st place drumline (Fairfield) at the NCBA finals? hahaha


My first comment on to you would be DIFFERENT JUDGES! WGI judges are trained different than NCBA judges...juet FYI.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:10 pm 
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But 8-ball says that Hogan, who did relatively worse than Fairfield in WGI, might do BETTER in NCBA competition BECAUSE "WGI judges are trained different than NCBA judges." It seems here that 8-ball is actually saying that WGI, not NCBA judging, is flawed!


You got part of it right, I think. If you're looking purely at scores, then any group is generally going to place higher in NCBA than in WGI, be'cos WGI judges are trained to look for different things and WGI judges MUCH HARDER than NCBA. I remember when I started in the WGI circuit, for our first show, we were told to expect a score of 50 or 60, and that was okay, because that's what EVERYONE was getting. However, in NCBA, top groups are rarely scored lower than mid-70s or 80s, even at the first show. I think WGI judges potential for the whole season - your score is expected to go up from the first show - while NCBA judges only against the groups present at that particular show.

I believe 8-ball was saying that Hogan would do better in NCBA score-wise, but wasn't comparing them with Fairfield at all. He was saying you can't compare across circuits like that.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:22 pm 
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I believe 8-ball was saying that Hogan would do better in NCBA score-wise, but wasn't comparing them with Fairfield at all. He was saying you can't compare across circuits like that.


I fully agree with you on the first paragraph of your post, but this is absolutely not what 8-ball was getting at. 8-ball indeed WAS comparing Hogan with Fairfield (as well as any line for that matter), saying that Hogan would do better in a "different circuit." However, 8-ball claims that although Hogan is ranked 7th in a lower WGI dvision relative to Fairfield, they would do well in NCBA because NCBA has "different judges."

Clearly, this is a confused argument which could be disregarded, though I understand 8-ball as trying to imply that Hogan would do reasonably well in a "different circuit." Which circuit he or she is referring to has yet to be explicitly stated.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:26 pm 
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So much to say and so little time...no reason for me to argue about NCBA vs. WGI. I just take the lines I teach to the best environment for them...and that is that.

WGI scores on a "build up" basis and not the "tear down" system like NCBA. Also, a HUGE difference in the judgine would be in the sheets. On NCBA, 75% of your score is music, while 25% is visual. I really love the attemps at new sheets that are supposed to be better...but there are just different flaws with these.

P.S. Hogan's line was screwed out of more champs than 1998...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:32 pm 
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goldturner916 wrote:
fadetosilence wrote:
Quote:
I believe 8-ball was saying that Hogan would do better in NCBA score-wise, but wasn't comparing them with Fairfield at all. He was saying you can't compare across circuits like that.


I fully agree with you on the first paragraph of your post, but this is absolutely not what 8-ball was getting at. 8-ball indeed WAS comparing Hogan with Fairfield (as well as any line for that matter), saying that Hogan would do better in a "different circuit." However, 8-ball claims that although Hogan is ranked 7th in a lower WGI dvision relative to Fairfield, they would do well in NCBA because NCBA has "different judges."

Clearly, this is a confused argument which could be disregarded, though I understand 8-ball as trying to imply that Hogan would do reasonably well in a "different circuit." Which circuit he or she is referring to has yet to be explicitly stated.


Well I was trying to be respectful of other people on the site and not just shoot my mouth off...I will just say I have big issues with NCBA and leave it at that. I do not believe in bashing on a public forum (unlike others on this site).


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 Post subject: congrats
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:12 pm 
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Congratulations to Fairfield HS, Open Class Champs! Great showing from Foothill and Vallejo too. Clearly their best performances of the season!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:00 pm 
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Actually Hogan and Fairfield are in different classes for WGI. Hogan is Scholastic A, while Fairfield is Scholastic Open. Open class in WGI is much tougher than A, but not the toughest, which is Scholastic World. World groups include schools like Logan, San Marcos, and Clovis West.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:29 pm 
8-ball wrote:
So much to say and so little time...no reason for me to argue about NCBA vs. WGI. I just take the lines I teach to the best environment for them...and that is that.

WGI scores on a "build up" basis and not the "tear down" system like NCBA. Also, a HUGE difference in the judgine would be in the sheets. On NCBA, 75% of your score is music, while 25% is visual. I really love the attemps at new sheets that are supposed to be better...but there are just different flaws with these.

P.S. Hogan's line was screwed out of more champs than 1998...


I'm glad to see you responded to my post, but I have yet to hear a clarification on what you meant by saying that there was NO comparison possible between Hogan, a 7th place WGI scholastic line, and Fairfield, who placed 1st in WGI scholastic open.

I'm curious to hear which other years Hogan should have won. You CANNOT SERIOUSLY be referring to 2000.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:54 pm 
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No, I was referring to earlier years.

And yes, congrads to all the lines competiting at champs.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:20 pm 
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[/quote]On NCBA, 75% of your score is music, while 25% is visual. I really love the attemps at new sheets that are supposed to be better...but there are just different flaws with these.
Quote:

What kind of flaws do you think they have? Are you talking about the switch from the judging being almost 100 percent on music, to what they did last year and added GE judges? :?:

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