" broken NCBA "

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gcarrasco
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" broken NCBA "

Post by gcarrasco » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:30 pm

"...Yea, the "broken NCBA" comment gave me a reason to respond. Wow..when I look at the number of views (world of pageantry website)between the NCBA CHAMPS FOR GUARD AND PERCUSSION there are over 4,000 views!! So... "broken NCBA" sure does still has a lot of interest!!..."

OK not my words, borrowed, twice...but the point was made that there seems to be strong interest in, maybe, tossing in some possible "fix its" So lets hear it folks throw out those ideas and see what sticks to the barn yard door.

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by Psalm 56 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:45 pm

gcarrasco wrote:"...Yea, the "broken NCBA" comment gave me a reason to respond. Wow..when I look at the number of views (world of pageantry website)between the NCBA CHAMPS FOR GUARD AND PERCUSSION there are over 4,000 views!! So... "broken NCBA" sure does still has a lot of interest!!..."

OK not my words, borrowed, twice...but the point was made that there seems to be strong interest in, maybe, tossing in some possible "fix its" So lets hear it folks throw out those ideas and see what sticks to the barn yard door.
Here is the "...broken NCBA..." comment in its entirety:
seeing as how pretty much everyone on this site keeps talking about the broken ncba circuit, how about we spark some discussion about these three WGI affiliates. Who are you thinking is going to take it all in these more established circuits?

Just wanted to make sure people who respond to his post understand what comment helped motivate it. Respond away. I think your responses would be beneficial for the June 5, 2010 NCBA meeting at Foothill High School in Pleasanton. Appreciate the topic.

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Powerhouse08
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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by Powerhouse08 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:27 pm

a majority of people that post replys about NCBA are from the same group of people having conversations back and forth on the same topic. So to imply that 4,000 responses means NCBA is awesome doesnt really work. And theres already a topic that discusses why NCBA is broken...see: NCBA judging

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by Powerhouse08 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:34 pm

and again, when people say that NCBA is "broken" or have negative things to say about it,it has nothing to do with the quality of the drumlines (or guards) in that circuit. It has to do with the way the circuit is ran. THAT is what is broken. Those 4,000 comments are about the groups that competed, so yeah, theres gonna be interest IN THE GROUPS. THAT ISNT THE PROBLEM. And again, the problems that exist have been around for a looooong time, which goes to show how broken it is.

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by Psalm 56 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:49 am

Powerhouse08 wrote:and again, when people say that NCBA is "broken" or have negative things to say about it,it has nothing to do with the quality of the drumlines (or guards) in that circuit. It has to do with the way the circuit is ran. THAT is what is broken. Those 4,000 comments are about the groups that competed, so yeah, theres gonna be interest IN THE GROUPS. THAT ISNT THE PROBLEM. And again, the problems that exist have been around for a looooong time, which goes to show how broken it is.
And so since there have been And again, the problems that exist have been around for a looooong time, which goes to show how broken it is. I missed two things in your message: 1. Specific problems 2. Specific solutions for those problems. I am confident we could read a response from someone "too many problems for me to name them." I am also confident to read "What does it matter about my solution? NCBA doesn't care." Both those statements will continue to show that NCBA is what the people want it to be - just there and something for people to complain about.

Let me understand your message: SOMETHING IS BROKEN YET IT HAD OVER 110 ENSEMBLES (guard & percussion) AT CHAMPIONSHIP??? HHHMMMM...See the NCBA board will let ya know that NCBA WINTER ACTIVITIES is growing!! And...since it is growing, what's to fix? Did the shows happen this year? YES. Did the shows hand out judges' sheets and scores? YES. Did the 'winners' receive trophies? YES.

WERE THERE JUDGES WHO HAD 23-30 POINT SPREADS BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND PLACE? yes. did that point spread happen more than once this season? yes. tHE LAST TWO QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ARE PROBLEMS. (my perception of their response)

I refuse to say, "NCBA IS BROKEN" when there are so many schools involved. I STRONGLY & LOUDLY SAY, "DESPITE THERE BEING SO MANY SCHOOLS INVOLVED, NCBA has problems that needs solutions that need attention." June 5, 2010 NCBA meeting Foothill High School Pleasanton.

Thanks Powerhouse08 for responding.

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by gcarrasco » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:13 am

All right, lets get back on track here...the purpose for this threat is to bring new and creative ideas to NCBA. I believe there are large a number of young people (performers) who we should all here from: Note listen to, Not judge. We all want positive change and shear numbers doing a young activity does not mean its done well. (the activity not the kids) YES Brings up your concerns but ALSO TELL US HOW IT CAN BE MADE BETTER! Herein lies the difference. "...it takes a group of talented, creative and industrious workers to build a barn: it only takes one Jackass to knock it down..."

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by gcarrasco » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:53 pm

THIS HAS TURNED OUT TO BE A BAD CHOICE OF WORDS. Instead of encouraging people to give suggestions, I've created more misunderstandings. I will ask the moderator to delete this thread.
GCarrasco.

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by Psalm 56 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:24 pm

gcarrasco wrote:THIS HAS TURNED OUT TO BE A BAD CHOICE OF WORDS. Instead of encouraging people to give suggestions, I've created more misunderstandings. I will ask the moderator to delete this thread.
GCarrasco.
George - too soon to take this topic off. Let people have a place to give problems and then solutions. We need some sort of resource to obtain data for the NCBA board. In the end...it's your topic. However, I am tired of reading (no matter age or experience) negative things about NCBA without solutions to problems.

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by 8-ball » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:28 pm

Problem: Feedback from too many judges (not ALL...there ARE some great judges out there) is not helpful and is aimed at a target audience that is not listening to these tapes.

Solution: Require more training of judges on philosophy and verbiage. I'm told this already happens but have heard many judges from the circuit say "I'm not doing that...what can they do, not hire me?" There needs to be some accountability in the sheets for judges as well as from the circuit.



Problem: Most facilities for percussion ensembles are unacceptable for today's groups. The use of electronics and what today's ensembles are playing make it a waste of time to compete at most NCBA venues because of how small the performance gyms are. There are issues getting props in and out of the gyms! There is also something to be said for getting an "adjudication" on something that turns into white noise for most ensemble moments. You can not evaluate it if you can't hear it!

Solution: If the venue doesn't meet certain requirements then DON'T HOST THE SHOW THERE! Just because some long term member of NCBA has hosted a show the same day every year since inception doesn't mean they should be entitled to hosting a show at the same bad venue every year. There should be some requirements made as to how big an entrance/exit should be for ensembles. There should also be a requirement for how good the acoustics are at any given venue. If there are only 6 rows of bleachers and the room has 4 concrete walls, then percussion ensembles have no business performing there. These venues lead to the notorious "benefit of the doubt" to established ensembles and leaves some of the accomplished ensembles left behind.


These are 2 HUGE issues that prevent me from bringing any of my groups to compete in this circuit.

The next would be the sheets...but I won't even go there...the sheets have at least come a long way from where they used to be.


I hope this helps and makes it to someone who cares...I certainly will not be attending the meeting...
Last edited by 8-ball on Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gcarrasco
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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by gcarrasco » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:11 am

Now this is more like it! Good points - good suggestions and a very candid comment on not performing NCBA. (sorry we can see yours)

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by olledowerdna » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:09 am

Some great stuff 8-ball!!
BD 1993-2011
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R.I.P "Nonno" - Tony Odello - Founder of the Blue Devils

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Re: " broken NCBA "

Post by Psalm 56 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:38 pm

Psalm 56 wrote:
gcarrasco wrote:THIS HAS TURNED OUT TO BE A BAD CHOICE OF WORDS. Instead of encouraging people to give suggestions, I've created more misunderstandings. I will ask the moderator to delete this thread.
GCarrasco.
George - too soon to take this topic off. Let people have a place to give problems and then solutions. We need some sort of resource to obtain data for the NCBA board. In the end...it's your topic. However, I am tired of reading (no matter age or experience) negative things about NCBA without solutions to problems.
Looking forward to having some more problems/solutions (not that I agree or disagree with any one person's contribution; just want more). I do appreciate 8-ball's response. See...too soon to take this topic down. I do think we need to have someone print and read the problems/solutions at the June 5, 2010 NCBA meeting at Foothill High School in Pleasanton.

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