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 Post subject: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:28 pm 
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I am opening a can of worms....also opening up the onslaught of jokes about percussionists not deserving awards. Me being a percussionist and a judge...it's just a part of being a percussionist. :saml:
There are those who love facts...
Parade Competition - 31 Percussion Groups Competed - Six Received awards: 1. C Division School; 2. A Division School; 3. A Division School; 4. B Division School; 5. D Division School; 6. AA Division School
Same Parade Competition as above - 38 Auxiliary Units Competed - 16 Received awards: TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION - three per division and one SWEEPSTAKES....
There are the facts.
I would like to see hosts please consider giving a first AND/OR second place for each division for the percussion ensembles and I LOVE THE SWEEPSTAKES IDEA - would love to see a percussion ensemble get a SWEEPSTAKES.

Just an idea...not interested in having my mind be changed or IN ME CHANGING YOUR MIND. Just an idea... :)

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Ok... I'll bite... *puts on the old Asbestos suit*

NCBA's classifications in both fall AND winter seasons have needed a serious overhaul for a looooooooong time now. (winter is an entirely different rant though) There needs to be a clear cut definition of what bands are in what class (including perc) and it should stay that way for the ENTIRE season! No more Host choice (cop out IMO) This way there is no guessing and this way it's a lot easier to read certain bands as they will always be in a similar order (sorry postmark guys.. no more of that)

Another thing that could happen is a reset between classes. Right now if there are 31 units in a parade scores are done across the board for those 31 units. That creates a number of problems including;

- Elevated numbers at the start of a season
- Inconsistent numbers throughout the season
- Pretty unfair playing field for the other smaller lines. I believe that's the chief complaint

OTOH the lines winning in the street are not from the A and AA schools. They are from the mid pack C schools... hmmm 8-)

Anyways how about this... before the 1st review of the year directors submit a TOTAL head count for performing members and that determines what class you're in for the fall season. Since there is inspection you get another head count there from the judge... just to make sure. And that's that. That’s your class all season you're stuck there for better or for worse.

The break down could be something like this...

Class A: Bands with up to 60 members
Class AA: Bands with up to 80 members
Class AAA: Bands with up to 100 members
Class AAAA: Bands with up to 140 members
Class AAAAA: Bands with any number of members higher than 140

With set classes... numbers and scores can also RESET between classes. That way in week 2 or 3 we're not seeing 90's because the judge has run out of wiggle room trying to rank and rate 31 freggin schools.

BTW these classes would xfer over to field show as well.

So there you have it. You can have your 1-3 between classes and a sweepstakes/high percussion award if you want. If bands knew they were going to be in a certain class all season they very well may crank up what they are doing in order to hang… ie- IIRC in the system I am proposing, Benicia, Bethel, Vallejo and Rodriguez would all be in class AA. Yeah if I was another school in AA and I wanted to get some perc love I’d be doing some MAJOR PUSHING REALLY QUICK

Fairfield and Del Oro would be AAA or AAAA (If I’m getting #’s wrong forgive me… I’m old) So depending on where you are you may have a chance to get into the top 3 or top 2 if you work at it

The class A bands may have a beast or two (what’s Atwater’s size) but if not, hey now you don’t have to stress over 30 lines, now you’re stressing over 5 or maybe 10.

So that’s my $0.07 take it as you will…



Winter Perc rant to come when the time is right… or maybe @ an NCBA meeting :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:50 pm 
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I am unfamiliar with NCBA. Please inform me so I can make a response to the question posed.

Are we talking about a "traditional" style parade where the bands play marches?


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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:15 pm 
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BttrDrummerThanU wrote:
I am unfamiliar with NCBA. Please inform me so I can make a response to the question posed.

Are we talking about a "traditional" style parade where the bands play marches?



yes and no.

NCBA street does have the band preform traditional marches but aprox 200-300 yards after the march comp zone is the street percussion comp zone. IIRC it's a way for schools that do not preform in field shows to have a venue for this perc sections to preform and shine.

In the perc zone anything (except standing or wind instrument ) goes. Everything has to be carried and marched including electronics .. bass guitar/electric guitars, etc

please see examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfCzWAa1T0U
http://vimeo.com/3486122

The major concern here is all drumlines are on the same page. There is no class break it's a battle royal for the top spots

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Wow...Slaphayppy7...thank you very much. Not that I agree or disagree with your response because frankly I need to read it several more times to understand it. Yet, I am very happy to have such a thoughtful answer. Let's continue to make NCBA an association that we want to be a part of.

In the end ... I am just asking the show hosts to consider having equitable number of trophies for percussion and auxiliary.

I look forward to seeing you at the next meeting (hopefully I will be there). Thanks again for SOLID response!! Maybe you will be at FOOTHILL this Saturday.

To vote...attending the meetings ...say NO to proxy voting. Just an idea... :soap:


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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:57 am 
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Okay. Paul. I am all for percussion being awarded much like the color guard. Never made sense to me otherwise. Since the guards are being judged as a whole unit, instead of Tall Flags, ID Units etc., they are judged much the same way as percussion units. Either put all the guard units up against each other, or award the percussion units by class. (which, correct me if I am wrong, but are there not some field shows that already do this? Then why not for parade?)

As to classifications. THIS KILLS ME! June meeting. I know Paul was there, as were a hand full of other directors. There was a very well thought out proposal put forth to unify the classifications for field. It passed on the floor, then those *blank blank blank* proxies came up and it was defeated... AT THE TABLE! Don't get me started. This is the biggest complaint that I have with NCBA. Every time something is brought up that would allow for forward progress, it gets shot down. Time for new blood, I say. And I also say, GET TO A MEETING. Sure, they may be frustrating, but the more people we get voting, the more chances we have to get our voices heard.

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:45 am 
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JenKozy wrote:
Okay. Paul.
Every time something is brought up that would allow for forward progress, it gets shot down.


Like kicking a rock uphill everyday.


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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:36 am 
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hmm sounds like one of two things are going to happen

1) Enough young blood (ie - instructiors, young judges, college students and current HS students will join forces... pay dues attend a meeting and overrunn the current standard) all those types of memberships are on the NCBA member app ya know...

Or

2) More and more bands will leave NCBA for WBA, WBA will grow and Parade comps will die out in nor cal.


Wonder which one is more likely to happen

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Good question.

Though, NCBA is a whole lot more lax in areas for field than WBA is. Monetary concerns may keep directors from moving away. As for parade, it is NCBA's bread and butter. No matter what way you slice it, parade is what makes it go round. Fat chance of it going away any time soon.

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Slaphappy7 wrote:
hmm sounds like one of two things are going to happen

1) Enough young blood (ie - instructiors, young judges, college students and current HS students will join forces... pay dues attend a meeting and overrunn the current standard) all those types of memberships are on the NCBA member app ya know...

Or

2) More and more bands will leave NCBA for WBA, WBA will grow and Parade comps will die out in nor cal.


Wonder which one is more likely to happen


I predict #1 over #2 and here's why I think that. Every season I see more and more NorCal people (band directors, instructors and judges) comfortably straddling these two organizations. Teaching here, judging there, vice versa or (d) all of the above. There is no hat they can change or switch they can hit when they're working "NCBA" vs "WBA" (or whatever other organization). These people's paradigm is what it is and it's been influenced by all that these individuals have been exposed to over the course of their own pageantry "careers" be that in WBA, WGI, DCI, DCA ... or wherever. Over time their paradigm is naturally bleeding into NCBA and change, while slow, is taking place. You can see some evidence of that in the introduction of the new winterguard sheets and the winterguard handbook in the last two years. Note: Winterguard folks, with feet in multiple puddles, pushed hard for those changes and like you said, paid their dues, showed up at meetings and made it happen. Change is slow but change is coming and, contrary to what it seems, there are people in NCBA who are very receptive to it.

And on a personal note ... "young" blood isn't what makes the difference in a fight, but having the guts to spill it does.


.


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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Correct me if I am wrong but NCBA and SCBOA are the only two California circuits that do parade right?


Speaking of circuits, how many (fall season circuits) are there in California?

NCBA
WBA
BOA
SCBOA

Any others? I'm just curious at this point

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 Post subject: Re: 31 Perc.Groups - Six Trophies; 38 Aux.Units - 16 Trophies
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:07 pm 
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JenKozy wrote:
Okay. Paul. I am all for percussion being awarded much like the color guard. Never made sense to me otherwise. Since the guards are being judged as a whole unit, instead of Tall Flags, ID Units etc., they are judged much the same way as percussion units. Either put all the guard units up against each other, or award the percussion units by class. (which, correct me if I am wrong, but are there not some field shows that already do this? Then why not for parade?)

As to classifications. THIS KILLS ME! June meeting. I know Paul was there, as were a hand full of other directors. There was a very well thought out proposal put forth to unify the classifications for field. It passed on the floor, then those *blank blank blank* proxies came up and it was defeated... AT THE TABLE! Don't get me started. This is the biggest complaint that I have with NCBA. Every time something is brought up that would allow for forward progress, it gets shot down. Time for new blood, I say. And I also say, GET TO A MEETING. Sure, they may be frustrating, but the more people we get voting, the more chances we have to get our voices heard.


Thank you Jen for agreeing about the percussion being awarded according to PARADE DIVISION. As far as change...it takes time. We know that. Let's continue to be patient, understanding, and continue to be committed to grow as an organization. NCBA is wonderful. It has come a long way and will continue to go a long way. As with any organization, group, country - there are issues to tackle/problems to solve. We can do it!!

To vote...attend the meetings...say NO to proxy voting. Just an idea. :soap:


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