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Are judges being too tough on the A class this year
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Author:  everybodycrys [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Are judges being too tough on the A class this year

I might be wrong, but after looking at the scores on the WGI website I couldn't find one A class group who broke 90, (not counting circuit scores) not even at the last week of regionals. Is this something thats normal? Every other class has groups scoring in the 90's Why are the numbers being held back for the A class? Watch the scores in San Diego this week. I expect to see the numbers for this class jump through the roof. Which would mark a problem with numbers management, (for which I have another theory)

Author:  sokkerboie [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:25 am ]
Post subject: 

One thing that concerns me...............On tapes there are comments made about design or achievement issues for which I think judges are usuing to validate their scores. But when you watch another program (similar numbers, same class) you notice the same "flaws" being made by other programs who are then outscoring you in that caption. I just don't understand how two guards who are pretty similar could see a 5-10 point spread in one caption when there are similar design issues (made on one tape and observed in the other's program). Does anyone else have questions or concers about consistency?

I think the judges are doing a GREAT job with a pretty challenging class. Possibly it is all a work in progress to make A class more competitive and a better class overall.

Author:  handgunsandsecondchances [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:39 am ]
Post subject: 

I think this year the A class standards have been raised.

Author:  guarddude [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:08 am ]
Post subject: 

Hmmmm...let's see...how many guards in Sch. A at WGI? Hmmmm....Of course they're going to look at us closer. Geeeez....there aren't enough good scores for all of us. If you really stop to do the math and the probability of it all, there aren't enough numbers.

I think staging and performance make or break the class.

And besides..who of all the Sch. A class groups wants that 90 number with the chance of review and bumping up to Sch. Open? A great honor but very scarey. My friend (who is beside me telling me what to type) says remember AXXIS in the "Stairway To Heaven" year? He knows they were an Ind. A, but he thinks it's a good analogy. So all you SoCal guards in Sch. A....beware! Hitting 90's in the mid or late season means you are scoring in high box 4 and low box 5. Those are open class skills. If you want that 90 score especially in the mid/later part of the season and your guard plans on going to WGI Worlds....(scarey music plays)....REVIEW AND PROMOTION!!!!!

Author:  guy0304 [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 

Actually I thought judging in WGASC was tougher than WGI because I noticed that some weeks some of our guards would score higher at a WGi regional only to be scored lower the following week in a wgasc show. So I actually started to think that wgasc was judging harder to help prepare the wgasc guards better for natioanls.

Author:  everybodycrys [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  hmmmm

So theres suppose to be a general trend of scores normally through out the season. Some sites use 2 points a week as a basis. With this huge jump in the A class (cause we know that will happen in SD) there is a problem with numbers management. I think this might stem from exactly what someelse said. Promotion, Those block numbers and promotion numbers are being consistently looked at by the judges, which I'm sure whether it's suppose to or not is affecting the numbers they assign. Perhaps the case can be made that the Promotion numbers are too low there by keeping the numbers low till Nationals when the skies the limit for the judges. Most judges do a great job with a restrictive system. Some will say that if we raise the promo score then less guards will get promoted. I don't believe that. As long as the judges recognize when a guard needs to be promoted it shouldn't matter what that number is. They just need more space between that number and the block numbers so we can have a better flow of numbers during the season.
As for the standards being higher, that wouldn't affect the numbers, As far as I know we haven't had any change of criteria since last season so the standards should be the same. I don't think the judges have gotten together and created a unwritten change in standards,
Just my thoughts - Ryan

Author:  engineer [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

After going to a few shows this year and watching A class finals the scores that each of the units recieved seemed right for what they were achieving. Using Dublin as an example they recieved an 81.50 at West PR and at Hayward they recieved an 88.4, using the two point rule their score is around what they should have recieved. At West PR many groups achieved post-block and from watching those shows it was easy to see how they did that. At Hayward, Dublin and Arcadia may have achieved block, if not post-block, and that's a great feat in itself. I don't see the judges coming down on the A class at all, they've been pretty good at making sure the score a school got was around what they deserved. They deserve a lot of credit giving the a fair number to a unit with such a huge sprectrum of shows in that class.

I do agree with everybodycrys when he says that the scores will go up in San Diego and pass 90 but I don't see scores going any higher than 95. Again using Dublin as the example and the 2 point rule we should see them getting around 92 give or take a point. The judges will definitely reward the finalst worthy A Class groups come prelims day.

As far as promotions are concerned I think WGI learned it's lesson the year they promoted most of the SA class finalists to Open in 2002. Many block scoring units always have the chance of being reviewed after WGI but I don't see many A class groups moving up for next season. On the flip side, should WGI move groups down a class during the season if a group isn't achieving what they should be?

Author:  flagchild06 [ Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

You gotta take into account that not only are standards being raised, but this year seemed to me like the prop explosion. Judges are looking for what adds to your show. Most instructors are peaking with their guards, they're in their prime and if a guard is willing to work for it, they're just getting better. Some guards are close to the nineties, and it's just hard. We have a bugillion + one guards in Scholastic A. I think the judging is fine, guards are just getting better and are at eachothers' throat.

Author:  Squeakum [ Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

The standards have definately been raised, but look at the shows that we all are doing, the standards had to be raised. Our shows keep becoming more difficult, and filled with depth. We're asking for the bar to go up, which I think is great b/c that means that we'll get a lot of recognition for being in the A class. And hopefully we'll keep pushing that bar up. :D

Author:  everybodycrys [ Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  The Bar

I agree, There have been some great A Class shows this year. So lets pose another question. If we keep raising the bar and creating these more difficult shows with lots of depth, how long before the A class is no longer the A class. The criteria that the A class is for beginning skills (and I know thats a laugh, but its what it says) has not changed. World guard consistently set new standards for the activity, but I think the A class is making furthur strides every year, and the range between is shrinking (although not a problem yet). If we followed the criteria, what guards should have been promoted this year?

-Ryan

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