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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:01 am 
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It's a pretty big leap from my little post to your assumption that I don't attend meetings, vote, or understand that the kids are the center of all that we do.

I've done all that you're asking in addition to volunteering oodles of personal time and blood, sweat and tears to effect positive change (as have many others here). Nowhere here have I discouraged anyone else from doing the same and continuing to fight the good fight.

I don't see the problem in peeling back the corner on the fact that while judges, sheets and training are the traditional scapegoats, our real stumbling block is our current leadership.

Sorry if that offends.




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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:30 am 
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I wonder if those you speak of are concerned? What you suggest is a complete turn over on the board, the addition of standing committees and/or new positions on the board. Along with a re-evaluation and /or re-write of most the score sheets, intensive mandatory training on those new sheets, a judge coordinator/assigner/evaluator that is allowed to assign judges according to ability/experience and availability.(this may need to be a paid position). Many of these changes may take a constitutional amendment and/or a change in the charter or by-laws by which we maintain our non-profit status with state and federal governments. WHEW! somone have an aspirin?


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:36 am 
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danceswithwood wrote:
It's a pretty big leap from my little post to your assumption that I don't attend meetings, vote, or understand that the kids are the center of all that we do.

I've done all that you're asking in addition to volunteering oodles of personal time and blood, sweat and tears to effect positive change (as have many others here). Nowhere here have I discouraged anyone else from doing the same and continuing to fight the good fight.

I don't see the problem in peeling back the corner on the fact that while judges, sheets and training are the traditional scapegoats, our real stumbling block is our current leadership.

Sorry if that offends.




.


Always fascinating to me how one interprets what one reads versus what one's message was intended to be. Thanks for the apology. However, it is hard to offend me when I know the intent of my message and the fact that I include the word 'WE' need to focus on the students. An analogy for you...a plane flying from SF to CHICAGO goes off course once in a while. So do I or so do WE go off course? JUST AN OPINON....WE are off course. We - NCBA and its membership - are allowing WE to be off course. That's all.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:45 am 
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Not hard to see why WE have so much trouble effecting change. Communication is the key - WE must all speak the same language, frank,honest, direct, without emotionalizing, grandstanding, or overly retorical.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:06 pm 
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gcarrasco wrote:
I wonder if those you speak of are concerned? What you suggest is a complete turn over on the board, the addition of standing committees and/or new positions on the board. Along with a re-evaluation and /or re-write of most the score sheets, intensive mandatory training on those new sheets, a judge coordinator/assigner/evaluator that is allowed to assign judges according to ability/experience and availability.(this may need to be a paid position). Many of these changes may take a constitutional amendment and/or a change in the charter or by-laws by which we maintain our non-profit status with state and federal governments. WHEW! somone have an aspirin?


Not a complete turn over... going back to some of what I said in my original post ...

IMO, it will continue to be hard until some of the current leadership retires. Reason 1: They support allowing hosting band directors choosing their own judges. Reason 2: There is no teeth to the "mandatory" in "mandatory training". People who don't participate are still on the active judge's list. Reason 3: There's no position to head up training ......

You can eat the elephant one bite at a time :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:07 pm 
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You know what, I hate elephat ! point taken. one finger should be enought in the levie.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:41 am 
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Good morning, I was just perusing through here. I must insist I’m NOT trying to be a proverbial pickle. There just seems to be a lot of vested interest in implementing dramatic improvements to the organization as a whole, in an effort to better meet the needs of the participating members and providing a consistent basis for the education of students as well as their instructors. Please correct me if I am incorrect in my assessment.

Would it then be a possibility to simply create another organization that incorporates all these seemingly much-needed enhancements? I understand that there is a designated process, forum, coordinated effort, revision of rules, and a general acceptance that must take place prior to implementing change. But for any paradigm shift to take place, when and where others aren’t so receptive to the proposed improvements, is it such a difficult task to simply start from the ground up, to build something new and dynamic?

Just so no one thinks I’m proposing outright mutiny on the NCBA Bounty, I will concede to the following points already discussed. TRUE: “The only way to make a difference is to be present and voice your opinions.” TRUE: “NCBA like everyone else has their issues.” VERY TRUE: “we all need to be willing to be professional and under accountability.” Comprehensive involvement, open lines of communication for feedback and organizational introspection, and proactive accountability are the keys to success in this matter.

Not so true: “Talking about problems on public forums alone doesn't solve them.” Think grassroots movements, and the different perspectives you can potentially gather from so many others that might want the same change as you do. I think this comment was probably made as an attempt to mitigate giving readers the impression that the NCBA was not making any progress or is not open to it. Whatever the case may be, any and all options should be considered, even if it that means creating an entirely new organization that meets those educational needs sooner rather than later. Specific to high school, students only have four years to make the most of their time learning and developing their talent and skills in the activity (but you can add middle schools as additional time of course). But don’t you think a change that takes 2-4 years to implement kind of, I don’t know, short-changes those that stand to benefit the most from it?

If I am out of line in any manner, moderators please remove my account access immediately to this public forum, and kindly forgive any inconvenience my incompetence may have caused.

gcarrasco wrote:
What you suggest is a complete turn over on the board, the addition of standing committees and/or new positions on the board. Along with a re-evaluation and /or re-write of most the score sheets, intensive mandatory training on those new sheets, a judge coordinator/assigner/evaluator that is allowed to assign judges according to ability/experience and availability.(this may need to be a paid position). Many of these changes may take a constitutional amendment and/or a change in the charter or by-laws.


danceswithwood wrote:
"Come to the June meeting" is an empty call to arms until there is a change that brings us leaders who are receptive to progress, willing to listen to the membership's call for change and do more than placate the membership with changes that look like progress and aren't.

_________________
"You're like Christopher Columbus. You discovered something millions of people knew about before you." -Lisa Simpson

"Mom, I'm going to give you life the way I imagine you gave me life: by pressing ALT F5 repeatedly." -Bart Simpson


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:50 am 
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Interesting manifesto... I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water... Yes I am very interested in making positive change but this can be correctly in a timely fashion with very little bloodshed. Sure lots of things need to be brought up to date, it was that lack of self-evaluation and yearly improvenment that caused our circumstance. I'm sure you noticed the "why try..." approach of many who post. Many who have posted here want to help be part of the change that, at this point, will be occuring. Before we "sack the towne" lets chat about what the "new" NCBA should look like.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:56 pm 
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thoughts on a “the new NCBA” (and none of these have to do with using that "other circuits" sheets):

Has a contest coordinator. Let the show sponsor worry about running their show and let the circuit worry about the units competing. This way there is one point of contact.

Has an evaluation show (notice how people always mention this one). It isn’t fair for units to be moved the week before championships, or two weeks or even a month before that matter. Changing a units classification delays when information from the show hosts get sent out, an evaluation show eliminates the need for moving units around. There are plenty of open weekends during the beginning of the season to make this happen around Northern California, enough of the geographic location excuse. No one said that it has to be one show, on one weekend.

Enforces judges training. No need to beat the dead horse with a stick on this one. But seriously if a judge who gets paid to evaluate the units who equally pay to be evaluated, take the time to keep up with what’s going on with the activity. It’s part of what you’re paid to do. Also make a simple rule: don’t do judges training, you don’t get to judge for the season. The people who are at the top of their craft never stop learning and will take the time to make it work.

In addition to judges training, the circuit also offers an instructors clinic. There are many young instructors who could truly benefit from learning lessons in how to teach fundamental technique in equipment and movement, how to craft proper transitions, understand the pacing of a program, what creates effect, and how the judges sheets work (although a 10 point scale leaves you pretty limited, different subject). The circuit and activity can only get stronger if more people know.

All groups get to perform in the large gym. If a participating units cap needs to be in place then do so; but if the championship venue has 15 rows, it doesn’t serve a unit well to be evaluated from a gym with 6 rows in it. Also this spreads out the units who compete at shows as opposed to shows with 20 units competing and shows with 70 units competing.

Makes sure the Championship Venue has at least 15 rows, and makes sure it has an HVAC system that works. It’s the end of the season, let the students perform in a large venue where they can be seen and can get the benefit of a large audience. Also by the end of the night, with many bodies in a gym improper HVAC systems can cause problems, such as slippery floors and increased risks of fainting.

Has a board that is apt for change. Only time will tell if it’s good or bad, but you’ll never know unless you actually try.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Enjoyed oldsole84's reply. Nicely done. Please go to the June 5, 2010 NCBA meeting and share these ideas.

Let me briefly share (tangent - I apologize)...
FOOTHILL HIGH SCHOOL HOSTS "BAY AREA REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS"
SAME DAY ELK GROVE HIGH SCHOOL HOSTS "SACRAMENTO/SAN JOAQUIN REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS"
TOP THREE GROUPS IN EACH DIVISION COMPETE THE FOLLOWING WEEKEND OR TWO WEEKS LATER (DEPENDING ON SPRING BREAK; TWO WEEKS LATER ISN'T THAT BAD; DEAL WITH IT)
THERE WILL BE AT LEAST 54 GROUPS PERFORMING. EACH GROUP PAYS $200 GIVING NCBA $10,800. ENOUGH MONEY TO 'RENT/LEASE' THE STOCKTON ARENA (holds up to 10,000 people). WHAT A GREAT VENUE FOR OUR STUDENTS TO PERFORM IN. Just an idea. Seems a bit extravagant...yet, PRETTY COOL!!! HOW DOES NCBA MAKE MONEY??? Not supposed to make money...it's a non-profit. If there is any money made...PUT IT TOWARDS THE ANNUAL NCBA CLINIC. Just cover the championship expenses from the week before regionals. From the Foothill/Elk Grove profits, take how much money it will cost to pay for trophies (fewer trophies needed) and the judges' fees. Convince both host schools: Both venues will be GUARANTEED participants each year. Both venues will be guaranteed shows on the same day of the month of March (stop moving Elk Grove show around). Just an idea...don't shoot me. Drum Major Championships can be the Friday night before...under the lights...at some high school!! Having drum major champs NOT THE SAME DAY helps ease stress for those DMs who are in an ensemble.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Good sense is at a premium these days, why waste it on deaf ears?


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:52 am 
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I'm just pointing out the places where NCBA has proven me right in why my group doesn't participate in the circuit. To mimic the sentiment over in the percussion discussion, consider what I've posted to be what is "broken", they were all from an operational standpoint.

One more thing to think about, how does NCBA serve the unit moving in the direction of WGI? At some point the circuit no longer serves the unit at all. The unit has no other choice to leave, taking them and the minds that create and direct them away from NCBA.

I have found a circuit that serves its members well. It works for the director, the instructor and the students, to which I will continue to support that circuit. So Psalm56, I won't be at the NCBA general meeting. My needs are not and have not been served by NCBA in the 3 years I've experienced it, time has told me it doesn't work. The direction that I'm moving my team goes beyond what NCBA offers.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:52 am 
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oldsole84 wrote:
I'm just pointing out the places where NCBA has proven me right in why my group doesn't participate in the circuit. HOW HAVE YOU SHARED THIS WITH THE NCBA BOARD OR MEMBERSHIP? I WAS ON THE BOARD AND I DO NOT REMEMBER HEARING OR READING YOUR SUPER CONTRIBUTIONS. To mimic the sentiment over in the percussion discussion, consider what I've posted to be what is "broken", they were all from an operational standpoint.

One more thing to think about, how does NCBA serve the unit moving in the direction of WGI? I DO NOT KNOW IF NCBA WAS MEANT TO MOVE AN ENSEMBLE IN THE DIRECTION OF WGI. At some point the circuit no longer serves the unit at all. The unit has no other choice to leave, taking them and the minds that create and direct them away from NCBA. ALWAYS A POSSIBLE SOLUTION IS TO 'SIMPLY' LEAVE. I KNOW...I HAVE LEFT JOBS WHERE I FELT I NO LONGER COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE OR CONTRIBUTE TO THE SCHOOL'S CULTURE. THE SCHOOL WAS FINE...I SIMPLY DID NOT FIT ANYMORE. I have found a circuit that serves its members well. It works for the director, the instructor and the students, to which I will continue to support that circuit. So Psalm56, I won't be at the NCBA general meeting. My needs are not and have not been served by NCBA in the 3 years I've experienced it, time has told me it doesn't work. SURE DO EMPATHIZE WITH YOU. I WOULD AGAIN LIKE TO SPECIFICALLY KNOW HOW YOU APPROACHED THE BOARD WITH YOUR FRUSTRATIONS AND THEIR SPECIFIC RESPONSE AND THEREFORE LACK OF ACTION. The direction that I'm moving my team goes beyond what NCBA offers.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Judging
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Psalm 56 wrote:
THERE WILL BE AT LEAST 54 GROUPS PERFORMING. EACH GROUP PAYS $200 GIVING NCBA $10,800. ENOUGH MONEY TO 'RENT/LEASE' THE STOCKTON ARENA (holds up to 10,000 people). WHAT A GREAT VENUE FOR OUR STUDENTS TO PERFORM IN. Just an idea. Seems a bit extravagant...yet, PRETTY COOL!!!


that would be sweet


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