Greatest Street Band of All Time?

[Brich]

Ancient history?? Oh you kids....

I keep trying to deny it, but every year...EVERY single dang year I'm involved in this great activity, I keep getting older. And older. And older.

Never thought I'd get to be part of ANCIENT history...and to think, some people on this board have no idea what a Velvet Knight was!!!

You'll really be dating yourself if you know any good stories about Brian Fox, who was a championship-winning drum major at PHS in the '60s with Larry Curtis. Back in that era, the best parade bands were very aware of secondary diagonals in perfecting the block.

[Ryan H. Turner]

Not only will I date myself, I'll raise ya' one...

Brian Fox, whom I knew only as a name on the Past Drum Major plaque inside Pasadena HS's bandroom, ended up being the very first drum major judge I ever had at a Tom Peacock competition. And if my brain cells are firing correctly, I believe Brian was at one time (or at the same time he was judging me back in 1982) the band director at Rim of the World High School.

So...really...I'm gettin' older and older and older...

Can we talk about kick butt drum majors from Pasadena HS??? Brian Fox, Robert Suh, Carl Anderson...oh god...I need to stop...I feel the gray hairs popping out all over the place!!!

[Brich]

I first met Brian Fox at the Univ of Redlands Drum Major camp in 1966. Drove up there for a fun week in the hot sun (Tom Peacock drove up with me..he was DM at Savanna HS; I was at Western HS). Fox was an instructor at Redlands. The next year, Brian and I ended up at Long Beach State. Along with guys like Gene Corporon (Mace champion from Helix), that 1967 LBS band must have had half a dozen of the top drum majors in So Cal, but all were playing in the band. With H Robert Reynolds and Don Wilcox at the helm that year, the college band experience was really great.

It's fun to dwell on the good old days

[Ryan H. Turner]

It's fun to dwell on the good old days

Yes it is...lots of fun...I tend to get known as the guy here on this discussion board that takes frequent "walks down memory lane".

I assume you are a band director now back in Pa?

[vore]

I was the drum major at Anaheim HS under Don Wilcox in 1964-65. After attending the old Bob Roberts DM Camp at the University of Redlands in 1964, I instructed at the camp in 1965. Tom Peacock (Savanna HS) , Eugene Corporon (Helix HS) and I competed during our high school drum major years...

In Southern California, the mace baton was coming into its own during the early and mid 1960's. Loara, Savanna, Helix and a few others were the vanguard of the SCSBOA mace drum majors. The drum majors of Mt. Miguel, Grossmont, El Cajon, Montebello, El Capitan, Pasadena, Arcadia and Anaheim were of the "old school" military baton.

I myself carried over the "old school" military baton to my bands at Magnolia HS 1976-1997 where I proved "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." Much of my style and resulting success with those Magnolia parade bands came from the "old school" traditions set down by Don Wilcox (Anaheim), Benton Minor (El Cajon, Pasadena, El Capitan), Rick Marino (Loara), Larry Curtis (Pasadena) and Ron Hoar (Arcadia). Using the "old school" style of parade band, the Magnolia parade band won Sweepstakes at the Arcadia Band Review 5 times!

I have known Brian Fox since he and I were youngins.... He studied under H Robert Reynolds, Don Wilcox and Larry Curtis at CSULB while I studied under Benton Minor at CSU Fullerton. After teaching at El Modena HS in Orange, Brian moved on to teach at Rim of the World HS. He is still teaching there but not as the band director...

Small world...

vore
John Hausey

Ryan H. Turner will always be a "young man" compared to most of us...

[Brich]

Very cool...I'm sure I met you back in the old days. Played a couple of summers in the Anaheim Community Band with Ross Davis. Both Wilcox and Reynolds were Revelli disciples, but both took a different approach compared to Revelli. Those of us at CSULB who had the privilege of playing under those two were disappointed when Reynolds left for Wisconsin and Wilcox a year later went to West Virginia. That said, Larry Curtis was also inspiring; and watching Benton Minor rehearse a street band or concert band was music education at its finest!

One thing you could always know about Brian Fox and Tom Peacock...lots of attractive women in the vicinity

I was the drum major at Anaheim HS under Don Wilcox in 1964-65. After attending the old Bob Roberts DM Camp at the University of Redlands in 1964, I instructed at the camp in 1965. Tom Peacock (Savanna HS) , Eugene Corporon (Helix HS) and I competed during our high school drum major years...

In Southern California, the mace baton was coming into its own during the early and mid 1960's. Loara, Savanna, Helix and a few others were the vanguard of the SCSBOA mace drum majors. The drum majors of Mt. Miguel, Grossmont, El Cajon, Montebello, El Capitan, Pasadena, Arcadia and Anaheim were of the "old school" military baton.

I myself carried over the "old school" military baton to my bands at Magnolia HS 1976-1997 where I proved "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." Much of my style and resulting success with those Magnolia parade bands came from the "old school" traditions set down by Don Wilcox (Anaheim), Benton Minor (El Cajon, Pasadena, El Capitan), Rick Marino (Loara), Larry Curtis (Pasadena) and Ron Hoar (Arcadia). Using the "old school" style of parade band, the Magnolia parade band won Sweepstakes at the Arcadia Band Review 5 times!

I have known Brian Fox since he and I were youngins.... He studied under H Robert Reynolds, Don Wilcox and Larry Curtis at CSULB while I studied under Benton Minor at CSU Fullerton. After teaching at El Modena HS in Orange, Brian moved on to teach at Rim of the World HS. He is still teaching there but not as the band director...

Small world...

vore
John Hausey

Ryan H. Turner will always be a "young man" compared to most of us...

[Brich]

It's fun to dwell on the good old days

Yes it is...lots of fun...I tend to get known as the guy here on this discussion board that takes frequent "walks down memory lane".

I assume you are a band director now back in Pa?

Actually, I taught Jr High Band and English in Pleasant Grove, Utah in 1979-80 era, and did some session work in Las Vegas and Salt Lake City (percussion and drumset). I'd say that I'm an enthusiastic music appreciator these days, working as a call center consultant back in PA.

Brian Richardson
Western HS Class of '67

[JLGORMAN]

Just a few thoughts about this topic, I am viewing at a distance from Heidelberg, GE, where I have been working for the last several weeks.

John Hausey and I played in the Fullerton College Band in 65 and 66 time frame. I noticed one thing that set John apart from the rest, that was his total ability to understand what everyone was doing on the street or on the field at the time hewas in command.

John was not probably the most stylish military drum major of all time, however he probably had better command of a Band than any other Drum Major I have ever watched. It showed when he became a Band Director.

Mentioning Great High School Drum Majors, how many of you remember the CSULB Band of the mid 70's when Larrry Curtis and Gordon Norman directed the Band and Fred DeLucia (a all western winner) was the DM.

One of the real sad things about so many field bands is that many of the Drum Majors just count the time and do not direct. I have seen this in just about every part of the Country. Sort of Sad, a good Drum Major makes a Band look good., and I agree with john, there are still a need for Good military Drum Majors.

[jacjar1]

good to hear from you Mr Gorman...you have been quiet but with marching band season just around the corner im sure we will be hearing more. This thread has been a very good learning tool about the past and marching bands in general.

Too many times the past is swept away...
Thanks to all for the enlightenment

[Brich]

Just a few thoughts about this topic, I am viewing at a distance from Heidelberg, GE, where I have been working for the last several weeks.

John Hausey and I played in the Fullerton College Band in 65 and 66 time frame. I noticed one thing that set John apart from the rest, that was his total ability to understand what everyone was doing on the street or on the field at the time hewas in command.

John was not probably the most stylish military drum major of all time, however he probably had better command of a Band than any other Drum Major I have ever watched. It showed when he became a Band Director.

Mentioning Great High School Drum Majors, how many of you remember the CSULB Band of the mid 70's when Larrry Curtis and Gordon Norman directed the Band and Fred DeLucia (a all western winner) was the DM.

One of the real sad things about so many field bands is that many of the Drum Majors just count the time and do not direct. I have seen this in just about every part of the Country. Sort of Sad, a good Drum Major makes a Band look good., and I agree with john, there are still a need for Good military Drum Majors.

Agreed....When CSULB came up to Provo to play BYU in 1977, I was at that game. Long Beach sounded great, even in a bitterly cold snowstorm. By the way, Anaheim HS back in the mid '60s was a really good street band under Wilcox. A bunch of us from Western HS used to observe (enviously) some of the after-school rehearsals, wishing our band could be as focused and cohesive as Anaheim was.

[vore]

Jeff Gorman is too kind...

All I did was watch the "band masters" of my youth (Benton Minor, Don Wilcox, Rick Marino, Larry Curtis, Ron Hoar), and I used their techniques when I was the Band Director at Magnolia HS 1976-1997.

If fact, I still use the same techniques with all of the 140+ bands I have cliniced or guest conducted over the past 30 years... The trouble today is that many of my younger peers don't seem interested in learning from those who are considered "band masters" of my day... and you won't find but very few of the answers in drum corps!

Speaking of memories, Jeff was in the band at Magnolia HS when I was in the band at Anaheim HS...

And Ryan H. Turner is still a little kid (age wise) compared to us...

Wait for my book to come out...

vore
John Hausey

[Brich]

Jeff Gorman is too kind...

All I did was watch the "band masters" of my youth (Benton Minor, Don Wilcox, Rick Marino, Larry Curtis, Ron Hoar), and I used their techniques when I was the Band Director at Magnolia HS 1976-1997.

If fact, I still use the same techniques with all of the 140+ bands I have cliniced or guest conducted over the past 30 years... The trouble today is that many of my younger peers don't seem interested in learning from those who are considered "band masters" of my day... and you won't find but very few of the answers in drum corps!

Speaking of memories, Jeff was in the band at Magnolia HS when I was in the band at Anaheim HS...

And Ryan H. Turner is still a little kid (age wise) compared to us...

Wait for my book to come out...

vore
John Hausey

The memories keep rolling....one of favorite experiences was every Saturday morning during the high school years playing in the Anaheim Youth Symphony under Reynolds and Marino....really helped us develop a certain sensibility about listening within the ensemble. I know that Reynolds (now retired from U of Michigan) is conducting the USC Wind Ensemble; but I've lost track of Rick Marino...is he still active? Also, Eugene Corporon has directed some outstanding band recordings at Cincinnati Conservatory and more recently at Univ. of North Texas.

[vore]

Rick Marino is still active as a band judge and clinician... Just saw him this past week at the 41st Annual AUHSD Band & Orchestra Festival. He is major league into handicaping the horses at the track! Rick was my private trumpet teacher in high school...

Eugene Corporon is Director of Bands at the University of North Texas (the old North Texas State University) in Denton, Texas.

vore

[altohack]

To anyone who could answer this (vore, dr, etc.), have standards gone up or down since the days of the Long Beach All Western? And how would bands like RB, Arcadia, Mount Carmel, El Dorado, etc. fare [sic] if they were to compete using standards from back then?

If that's not a loaded question I don't know what is. Vore may be able to give you the perspective from a knowledgeable competitor's/adjudicator's standpoint. I can only give my impressions as a spectator/fan.

Aside from the last few years of the All Western, most marching bands in Southern California were concentrating on parade performances. The entire fall season was pretty much dedicated to perfecting the presentation of one march in a 450 foot competition area. All afterschool rehearsals were focused on parade after the obligatory home football game halftime show was learned. And many of the bands competed in a parade every week up to the Long Beach All Western Band Review. (BTW, most bands performed a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT halftime show for each home game!)

Also, back in those "old" days, many, if not most, of the junior high schools competed in parades. In fact, there was a junior high school band review held in Seal Beach every year. Those very competitive junior high bands fed into the most successful high school bands.

Today bands tend to be parade bands, field bands, or bands that do both parade and field. Most bands do both parade and field. Almost as many do field only and a few do parade only. Most of the "top" parade bands do both parade AND field (notable exceptions would be Montebello and Schurr, who do only parade).

Because most of the bands now competing in band reviews are doing both parade and field, their efforts are necessarily divided between the two activities. As a result, I believe today's "typical" parade performance is not as high a calibre as the performances back before field competition became so popular. That doesn't mean that a performance today by Arcadia, Rancho Bernardo, Mt. Carmel, El Dorado, or Chino wouldn't be competitive back then. But simply because the focus was only on parade then, those older bands would have a distinct advantage over today's bands. Imagine what Arcadia, Rancho Bernardo, Mt. Carmel, El Dorado, or Chino would be able to accomplish in parade if that was all they rehearsed during the fall.....

Just as an aside, another part of the band review performance that is missing today is the "tricks" band directors used to enhance their performances. Rick Marino at Loara High School is who I think of most in that regard. The band was famous for it's stepoff. A crisp, clean snare cadence that ended in eight beats of total silence before the band blew away the judges and the crowd with their first note, timed so the band was right in front of the judges when they played that first note.

Arcadia High School used to have hash marks painted throughout the campus on the sidewalks (so I've been told) so the band members could rehearse their length of stride throughout the day. The length of stride was calculated so the band would be in certain favorable positions in front of the judges for the best musical presentation.

A lot more effort used to be put into the stepoff routine back then. I remember a wonderful stepoff by Garden Grove High School when they were playing "Barnum & Bailey's Favorite" that ended with a timpani roll that worked right into the first note of the march. The timpanist was dressed in an argonaut costume as I remember, between the identification unit and the drum major. It was very dramatic. Today's bands tend to take a much safer approach to band review competitions - focusing on Sousa marches and playing in a controlled concert band style. It's more musical, but not as dramatic and exciting as the "old days."

For what it's worth, that's my take on comparing today's and yesterday's parade bands in SoCal, since you asked. Vore was much more involved a little earlier than I was and will probably have more to say. John???

Dennis

Okay I am a young un in comparison to all of you (15 as of now) but from what my band directors have told me, showmanship was hardcore at long beach. Judges would watch whether girls would have their hair put up correctly, and whether guys had whiskers on their chins.
Pant leg sizes had to be exact and everything...
I think that showmanship back then was better than it is now, as for musicality... someone else will have to judge.

By the way, I'll be sure to get a copy of that book Mr. Hausey.

[vore]

With the exception of the area of attached units (auxiliary) , the standard of SCSBOA parade band showmanship adjudication has remained virtually the same for the past 40+ years. As I have previously mentioned in other postings, some years back a certain PAC Head Judge and VP of the PAC made the decision to "bear down" on the routine content (vocabulary or some other current term - pick one...) of the attached units. Currently, this area is more subject to extreme evaluation compared to the 1960's - 1980's.

What is no longer used and probably what your director was making reference to was the area of "inspection." This area was taken to the extreme by some adjudicators which caused some major placement changes at such events as the Long Beach All Western Band Review and the old Tournament of Champions Band Review.

Inspection was dropped due to a few reasons: 1) the savings of monies to hire another judge by the parade or band review, 2) the current trend of combined parade and field events where a band competes on the field in the morning and then competes in the band review immediately following (Chino, Mt. Carmel) and 3) so many directors wanted the inspection area dropped...

wait for the book....

vore
John Hausey