What does everyone think about Etiwanda's '03 season?

[Music Education]

I hate it when people say a show wasn't entertaining....these kids work their butts off (especially the ones at Etiwanda) for a 7-9 minute show. They expect aplause for being one of the most musical bands out there. Yet you people basically say that they were boring? So if you saw a band that sucked at everything, but played your taste in music, you would like them more than the band who ruled at everything but played music that wasn't your taste?

We as spectators are entitled to our own opinions. You dont have to agree or like our opinions, but you had damn well better respect our rights to them. Just because a group works their butts off, does not mean that everyone has or will like their show. Your statement when you say "They expect aplause", well if thats the case, they are in it for the wrong reasons. They can expect a lot, but that does not mean we as an audience (every member) has to give that. No one is saying Etiwanda was boring, or that they cant play good music. They were a great musical band, but to say that they were one of the best, when you probably havent seen anything else outside of WBA or SCSBOA is just not right. But from my experiences with seeing other bands across the nation this year, Etiwanda doesnt quite match up to what else is out there. Get outside of the box once in a while, and you will understand and see that Etiwanda is NOT the only band that can achieve great things. There are bands like Center Grove (IN), Marian Catholic (IL)(who actually had a down year this year), Westfield (TX), to name a few who put on 8 - 11 minute shows, who work their butts off too. I recommend you listen to their mp3s and then come back and tell me what a good band sounds like! Those bands have proven that they can handle competition within competition. Again, no one is trying to defam Etiwanda, but some groups get far more credit than they actually deserve. And coming on here making a fool out of yourself and their program isnt helping their case. Im quite sure Etiwanda doesnt "expect" for people to bow down to their performances. If I dont like a bands performance, there is nothing YOU can do about that!

***I'm not some bozo who knows nothing about band. I will say it again, If I sound like a jerk in my post, that is not how it is intended to be. But I feel I need to step in, and voice my opinion, when I think its right. This post has nothing to do with how I feel or view the Etiwanda music program. But other spectators need not put their "endoctrined" beliefs on the rest of us.

You can also ask Alan Irons how I feel about music education, and the music in general. I'm a fair man, and will not hesitate when you ask my opinion on something. And the initial thread of this post, is basically asking our opinions on their 2003 show. So with that said, when someone asks an opinion, dont get upset when they dont give you the answer you are looking for.

Thanks!

[jacjar1]

I'm confused...Alan says rather plainly that Etiwanda wasn't bad, but as always they could be better. How is that a non-opinion.

Okay, I'll explain myself....this "opinion" applies to virtually all shows therefore, its ambiguity renders it (in my opinion) irrelevent.....thus, I stand by my original reply...non-opinion. [/quote]

Before you post something like this consider the source and the content. Alan has posted several times his opinion on various bands and is very fair. I dont see why you seem so confused with his very clear statement.
I am one of those who felt they Etiwanda’s music was not very.... well entertaining. it was good but i did not care for it. (Oh no I just committed blasphemy).
It sounded good but as a field show it was ok. That has nothing to do with working hard, sounding good or playing well. Its just the music I did not care for. I saw them at Trabuco and I thought they were clean and deserved first place.

But IMHO Westfield high of Texas was the best band I have seen. I missed their live performance but on DVD it is still awesome.

I have to wonder why these threads are started. Is it to have your band praised or to get everyone worked up about another band?

Congrats to Etiwanda for a successful year keep up the " hard Work".

[banddork04]

Music Education, I never respond to flame posts, but yours, hidden as expert opinion, required meet to “step in”. While I do respect your right to post your opinions on this post, I don’t respect them because you come across as a very bitter person. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying that their students don’t deserve your applause (frankly, I don’t think they care if you clap or not) but it reflects poorly on yourself to say that a group of high school kids putting a lot of work into a show and trying their hardest to perform it isn’t worthy of your appreciation because they did not entertain you adequately.

I really don’t understand your reasoning for listing other great bands from around the country because if you really were educated in music, you would have known that Etiwanda is right up there with these bands. I buy the National videos every year so I am quite aware of the quality of these bands. I am curious though, on how someone form Fresno High School became sooooo much more wise in the aspects of marching band then the rest of us. No knock on your school, but I have never even heard of it.

Also, for you to say in an earlier post that Etiwanda doesn’t compete in competitive shows is also flat out wrong. You claim to do research, but it sure doesn’t seem like you actually considered it in your opinions. There first contest that they won, Kennedy, featured many of the elite bands in Southern California (Chino and Vista) including two of your precious WBA bands (Upland and Ayala). To try and discredit the BOA Phoenix show is also stupid of you because there was also many talented groups there. Oh, and Etiwanda did get the second highest regional score this year (maybe you overlooked that in your research).
You said that you were at the WBA Trabuco Hills contest so then I am sure that you are aware of the quality of competition that Etiwanda beat (Ayala, Upland, Poway, Fountain Valley and WBA champion Mission Viejo). The competition at the SCSBOA championships does not even need to be defended.
For you to say that these bands are not respectable competition is extremely ignorant and wrong and shows your uneducation in the world of marching band.

Etiwanda is an amazing band. As I previously said in previous post, I, like you, was not exactly entertained by their show, but being a marching band aficionado, I was very appreciative of their excellence of firstly musical ability, secondly marching ability, and finally there performance of their show.

I guess your attempt to “endoctrine” (not an actually word by the way) me failed. These are my opinions on the Etiwanda Marching Band. Congratulations on a great undefeated season against worthy completion Etiwanda.

[Survivor]

Well I dont have much to say on the topic of Etiwanda because I really dont see them as a such high band. Yes I can tell that there is some good things that this band does. They have a Drum Corp insturctors just as so many other High school bands do. But there so many good bands out there that dont ever come to such a highley rank pos becuase Etiwanda is the talk well....That is enough on that

[Tyler]

I am curious though, on how someone form Fresno High School became sooooo much more wise in the aspects of marching band then the rest of us. No knock on your school, but I have never even heard of it.

it says the hoover high school in fresno, not fresno high school. hoover high school competes in wba. so i guess your un-'wise' accusations got the best of you. don't 'knock on [others'] schools'

Oh, and Etiwanda did get the second highest regional score this year (maybe you overlooked that in your research).

just my opinion, but you cant really compare scores and rank etiwanda as the second highest regional score. you cant really compare regional scores. ive researched, ive seen the scores. and the claim cant be made. unless you believe that if etiwanda had attended every boa regional, they would have beaten all the schools except westfield, tx

[Music Education]

Music Education, I never respond to flame posts, but yours, hidden as expert opinion, required meet to “step in”. While I do respect your right to post your opinions on this post, I don’t respect them because you come across as a very bitter person. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying that their students don’t deserve your applause (frankly, I don’t think they care if you clap or not) but it reflects poorly on yourself to say that a group of high school kids putting a lot of work into a show and trying their hardest to perform it isn’t worthy of your appreciation because they did not entertain you adequately.

I really don’t understand your reasoning for listing other great bands from around the country because if you really were educated in music, you would have known that Etiwanda is right up there with these bands. I buy the National videos every year so I am quite aware of the quality of these bands. I am curious though, on how someone form Fresno High School became sooooo much more wise in the aspects of marching band then the rest of us. No knock on your school, but I have never even heard of it.

Also, for you to say in an earlier post that Etiwanda doesn’t compete in competitive shows is also flat out wrong. You claim to do research, but it sure doesn’t seem like you actually considered it in your opinions. There first contest that they won, Kennedy, featured many of the elite bands in Southern California (Chino and Vista) including two of your precious WBA bands (Upland and Ayala). To try and discredit the BOA Phoenix show is also stupid of you because there was also many talented groups there. Oh, and Etiwanda did get the second highest regional score this year (maybe you overlooked that in your research).
You said that you were at the WBA Trabuco Hills contest so then I am sure that you are aware of the quality of competition that Etiwanda beat (Ayala, Upland, Poway, Fountain Valley and WBA champion Mission Viejo). The competition at the SCSBOA championships does not even need to be defended.
For you to say that these bands are not respectable competition is extremely ignorant and wrong and shows your uneducation in the world of marching band.

Etiwanda is an amazing band. As I previously said in previous post, I, like you, was not exactly entertained by their show, but being a marching band aficionado, I was very appreciative of their excellence of firstly musical ability, secondly marching ability, and finally there performance of their show.

I guess your attempt to “endoctrine” (not an actually word by the way) me failed. These are my opinions on the Etiwanda Marching Band. Congratulations on a great undefeated season against worthy completion Etiwanda.

I've taken every paragraph you wrote in your last response, and replied to it so you can get a nice understanding this time.

Not once did I ever try to come of as if I was some elitist, because that is the last thing I am. However, I was just stating my own opinions just as everyone else has on this board. And as I have said in my last two post on this subject, I have nothing at ALL against their program, and what they are doing. And why should I be ashamed of myself for saying my opinions? Im not saying their band doesnt work hard, and etc. If you read an earlier post of mine, I did cheer for the band, as I cheer for every band that comes out to shows. And I honestly could care less about what reflects on me, because of my difference of opinion on a forum. There are many others who probably have similar opinions like myself, who wont post on here, because they are affraid of SCSBOA extremist like yourself. I however, am not going to hold myself back. This topic, was asking our thoughts on their 2003 season and I gave mine. In my messages, I have never once tried to "endoctrine" anyone, because its simply an opinion; whether or not you agree with me, is up to you. As for their show, it didnt entertain me, but thats not saying I didnt like it. Every year I go to band shows, and there are different elements of shows that I like from each individual group. But please, read closely into my last two responses. I have respect for all competing units, and never once have I bashed, or trashed any of them. These responses have not been to flam Etiwanda, but I think its nice to get a difference of opinion once in a while, from another perspective. You dont have to agree with me, and I am not asking you to.


My reasoning for listening to other bands around the country is to better educate myself, and learn how other directors and students do in this field. Ive been around long enough to know that Etiwanda can and has competed with the elite groups before (not verbatum: as I have mentioned in another post: I think Etiwanda should continue to compete with elite bands, as that seems to be the direction their progam goes). Curious as to how someone from a Fresno High School became wise on marching band? First off sweetie, I did not graduate from Fresno High School, I graduated from Hoover High School which is in Fresno, which is a WBA Class AA band. Regardless if youve heard of Hoover or not, that has nothing to do with his post. But I will let you know just for the sake of it, Hoover is by far no Etiwanda, but they do fair extremely well for a small band. I happen to know a lot about various circuits and bands, because I simply travel to these places yearly to see what its like, how the bands are, how the circuits are run. For you to say I am stupid because of my opinions is wrong, Im sure my family who has had me involved in this activity since 3rd grade would want to hear that. Please think about how you use your words on a public forum. The way you responded to me, shows that you dont have the decency to cary a mature dialogue.


I never once said Etiwanda hasnt competed in competitive shows, what I said, if you read right, was Etiwanda hasnt been competing in shows that they once did in the past (which were highly competitive). And anyone in the BOA world (BOA Forums included) will tell you BOA does INFACT have weak regionals, I can name off a hand full, but that wouldnt do any good here. Las Vegas, and Pheonix are both WEAK regionals if you look at the general scope of it. Thats not to say the bands that attend are poor performing groups. And to compare Etiwandas "second highest" regional score between shows is "stupid" as you would call it, because everyone knows you cant compare regional scores to one another...Different judging panels, at different shows, oh smart one! And yes I was indeed at the Trabuco Hills tournament, and I am clear on their placement and how they "beat" Ayala, Upland, Mission Viejo, etc...very well done. Now you make the mistake by "The Competition at SCSBOA Championships does not even need to be defended"...Okay why doesnt it need to be defended? Never once did I say these bands were not respectable competition, but it doesnt take a rockett scientist to understand which shows are more competitive than others.

Again, we know Etiwanda is an amazing band. Ive heard them many times throughout the years, and personally, I just would like to see them at more elite shows, since thats the calibur band they are. Whats wrong with that?

And for my attempts to "endoctrine" you, was not the purpose. If you felt like I was trying to push you to believe on my opinions, then you have made a mistake in your reading. Because I am the last person who would ever try to force my opinions as facts for someone to believe.

[rickyric]

I guess they are better than all of your comments if they are worth such wordy discussion. Before you judge a group on their competition visits better check the schedules for the past 8 years. BOA Grand Nationals three times only band from Cal to be in finals and place in top 10 as well as Western Regional winners many times. WBA winners many times, Fiesta Bowl Champions twice that I know of, New Mexico State Band Festival, many undefeated seasons in the SCSBOA that I remember over the past ten years, Tournament of Roses appearance, WSMBC winners as well. Can't remember Hoover at any of these. Etiwanda I'm sure like any other bands only has a limited number of Saturdays to perform at Tournaments and these days as all of us know $'s isn't easy to come by to travel. I beleive they have some groups this
spring going to Europe. They fortunately have a terrific Booster Program and parent support that helps them earn the $'s it takes to move around from place to place on their schedule. Etiwanda if you notice doesn't frequent the same schedule year after year that most groups do and this is a well rounded group that can be so flexible in their schedule and do well at all of those competitions. It does give the students a more well rounded idea of how things are all around and not the same places year after year.

Etiwanda as alot of other groups in California have reached a new level in High School Marching Bands that they fortunately have had the opportunity to acheive. I feel proud that we have such fine representatives in the National Competitions like Etiwanda and others to represent the state. Too bad the media of California doesn't see a need to promote the good in this activity as they do the violence in California.

[Music Education]

I guess they are better than all of your comments if they are worth such wordy discussion. Before you judge a group on their competition visits better check the schedules for the past 8 years. BOA Grand Nationals three times only band from Cal to be in finals and place in top 10 as well as Western Regional winners many times. WBA winners many times, Fiesta Bowl Champions twice that I know of, New Mexico State Band Festival, many undefeated seasons in the SCSBOA that I remember over the past ten years, Tournament of Roses appearance, WSMBC winners as well. Can't remember Hoover at any of these. Etiwanda I'm sure like any other bands only has a limited number of Saturdays to perform at Tournaments and these days as all of us know $'s isn't easy to come by to travel. I beleive they have some groups this
spring going to Europe. They fortunately have a terrific Booster Program and parent support that helps them earn the $'s it takes to move around from place to place on their schedule. Etiwanda if you notice doesn't frequent the same schedule year after year that most groups do and this is a well rounded group that can be so flexible in their schedule and do well at all of those competitions. It does give the students a more well rounded idea of how things are all around and not the same places year after year.

Etiwanda as alot of other groups in California have reached a new level in High School Marching Bands that they fortunately have had the opportunity to acheive. I feel proud that we have such fine representatives in the National Competitions like Etiwanda and others to represent the state. Too bad the media of California doesn't see a need to promote the good in this activity as they do the violence in California.

Yep, I've mentioned those various events in prior post. I am aware of their success at BOA Grand Nationals in 1995, 1999, and 2001. I'm not knocking them as a band or their talents. I've seen Etiwanda perform in WSMBC/WBA countless numbers of times as well, so again you fail to realize that I too know of their prestigeous achievements. And, before you begin to knock Hoover High School, you may want to read what I said in my previous post. But I'll just say it again, since you obviously didnt see that. Hoover High School is by far no Etiwanda, however, they still continue to come back every year and compete in WBA, at Hoover we didnt ask for praise, on how we did. Our program was built on achieveing our own success, not about what others thought about us. And from what I see, it is still that way today. The band members dont need a public forum to tell them that they work hard. My comments have nothing to do with Etiwandas talent level, and you and the other poster fail to realize that. But, before you go rambling off how much I dont know about bands, you may want to Instant Message me, Private Message me, or e-mail me...I know a lot more than you may think! I happen to have seen shows from the years that you stated "I didnt know". Again, I know how hard Etiwanda works, I know how elite they are, and their past resume of awards, honors and achievements, but that does not change my opinion of what I feel TODAY. If this post was made about Hoover, I would probably have similar opinions. But unlike most people, I am able to see my opinions for just that, Im not trying to make facts out of them. If you ask me, its people like you who arent able to accept constructive criticism. Again and I repeat again...The poster asked what we thought of their season, and when people dont give the answer others want to hear, people freak out. Get over it! Everyone is not going to like every single detail about Etiwanda, we are all going to have our own opinions on every band we see. But that does not mean we dont respect, understand, or value what that band does. Please stop trying to turn every post I myself make, or anyone else, into something else (taking it totally out of context). Alas, I digress...there is no need in arguing over this anymore. Learn how to read post more careful, without getting your panties in a tight wad. If you read closely, I never said anything negative about Etiwanda. If you want to hear negative stuff about Etiwanda, I will be more than happy to give you the e-mail, name, and phone number to a certain band director, and you can duke it out with him. Thanks for taking things out of context.

[DanielE]

I'm not knocking them as a band or their talents.

It sure sounds like you are....

[jacjar1]

I'm not knocking them as a band or their talents.

It sure sounds like you are....

Dude you need to chill. you have only posted a few times so ill chalk it up to being a rookie. I dont see where anyone knocked anyone else. if you think that was tough you should read some of the other threads on this board or better yet go to the BOA site and see what bashing is really like.

[Music Education]

Edit: wrong reply to wrong person.

[jacjar1]

Edit: wrong reply to wrong person.

yup i see ur point i was backing you up that response was meant for Daniel.

Music Education,
You posts have been right on. too many people are hyper sensitive and when an opinion is expressed its like unleashing an firestorm!


To everyone: Websters defines opinion as

a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

[eternalbando]

Personally, I felt that they did a great job, but at the same time, I feel cheated out of an award my school could have gotten, because Etiwanda focuses only on field, while most of the other schools focus on hboth street and field. Also, their show really didn't strike me as awesome or amazing...yes, I enjoyed it, but I thought Arcadia and RB did much better! I know this is a subjective arena, so it's not my opinion that truly matters, but still...I think they could've done a LOT better with all the time they focus on field...they dissappointed me.

[Boyo]

Etiwanda has always tried to be very different every year. That means trying different competitions every year. Some haven't been too competitive, but its better to try something new. In 2002 Etiwanda took on street comps for the first time in about six or seven years. No one in the band new a thing about parade competition, but we worked hard and won at Fiesta Bowl. Being different is also the reason Etiwanda has had their last two seasons' shows written originally for them. In the last 5 years, Etiwanda has lost only five competitions. Thats a fact. Don't try to challenge that, because I know. Two of those were BOA Grand Nationals ('99, '01), '99 WSMBC Championships, and a close Second behind Chino at Los Altos in 2000, as well as another narrow defeat at BOA Vegas in 2001 by Coronado HS from TX. They have been SCSBOA champs both years now, BOA Regionals Champs for many years, as well as Fiesta Bowl National Champions in 2002 both field and street. Anyone who wants to say that there is no competion there is way off. I was there. Broken Arrow HS from OK is an outstanding band, and consistently makes Finals in BOA Nats.

As for those who have said that Etiwanda should be going to Texas or Indianapolis for BOA Grand Nats, that is a simple matter of money. A trip to BOA Grand Nats can make the band fee as high as $1100. To ask for parents to pay that kind of money is challenging, and its even harder if there are sibblings in the band. Etiwanda is NOT a "rich band".

To try and say that Etiwanda does not rank with some of the other bands is completely unfounded. They have been to just about every competion in SoCal and competed against all the other great Bands in all the top circuits, and have done well consistently, to say the very least. They work unbelievably hard, under constant pressure, and it shows, just like every other band out there. I thank some of you here for recognizing that.

Brass kicks A$$!!!

[Survivor]

My turn......

Well I have read almost everyones post's and I have come to the fact that there are a lot of differnt thoughts on Etiwanda's 2003 season. Yes they did come out to play this year. Not only in the Drum Line but also in there band. I think that most of you can say that there Pageantry was not as "ready" as the rest of there program but it did not matter in the end, there visal, marching, music, band, and Drumline all came out to play and that is very known. As most of you can see after you read everyone else's post there are a lot of Etiwanda fans and some not so Etiwanda Friendly if I can say that LOL. My self I think that Etiwanda has a good program. Yes there are somethings I dont like but hey there are things in everyone's show that I dont like. But let me remind all of you it is not your job to point the things people dont like and turn them into a arguement.

I think that Etiwanda's Percussion is verey good there agin, there are things that I dont like about there Percussion section..1 I belive that Etiwanda could play harder things. I think that they get by on what can win and to me its not right. Other High Schools play books that are challenging so of course there are going to be ticks but in a less challenging book there are less ticks you get the picture.....

I do think that Etiwanda has great visals. Most corps have that type of visals. If I was to see other bands have that type of shows I think it would be a lot more intresting dont you all agree. I think that is one thing that everyone can agree on, is that Eitwanda is a great visal band and Pageantry. They play a pice of music wich to me is a good pice of music and the do it while marching a near flaw less show.(sorry for all my bad spelling)

In the end there is only one thing to say. Etiwanda no matter what you may think of them is the #1 band in SCSBOA. Some may say in the whole state of Cali. Because they beat WBA bands too but that is totaly differnt judging and everything and you cant compare you really cant. To me I do think that there are other bands out there that are better then them. But because of there great visals its hard to beat them. So you can say all the good crap and all the bad crap about Etiwanda but in the end they play a show and march a show and drum a show and spin a show that is a #1 show and no one can take that away from them unless they beat them wich I do hope some one does next year.....Go RB its all up to you guys ( And no I'm not from RB I'm more north...)........Good luck to all this coming year in all you do and rember to play, march, drum, and spin your show............ [/u]