It's NOT rare that a bands score will go down during the season. Arlington's score went down, Bellflower, La Puente, Glendora, even Hart's score went down. My god my bands score went down by 3.65 friggin points!!! Mira Mesa's scores went down, Murrieta Valley's, Carlsbad's... look at the score sheet for SCSBOA and you will find that it's not very rare for a bands score to go down. Some bands scores may go down and continue going down, but it's not the judges fault(s)! Just because you score an 80 at one competition, does not necessarily mean that you will score an 80 or higher at the next competition. Just because you've improved, does not necessarily mean your score will improve. Sure, it'd be nice if it did, but you must remember. Judges are also judging the improvement of the bands you are competiting against. Not only yours. So if you beat a band one week, and then they beat you the next, then maybe they just worked harder that week then you and managed to improve just enough. There's not much you can do about it except work harder and get better.BariLizzy05 wrote:I really don't know what to say anymore at this point. All I know is the bottom line and that is this: A lot of the kids in these high school marching bands are so happy with themselves and their great performances but a part of them, small part for some, large part for others, is sad that they got a 93 one week and the next week they got an 89 and on the video it is obvious that their show was better. And the only answer we have for them is ......................well, you know the answer already. Need I repeat it?BandAddict wrote: Where I feel that it WOULD help is that UNLESS the band is really bad, you should try and keep the score above the 80. In the words of many out there such as Mr. T, scores don't matter, right? Therefore, give that band an 80.1 or better. Easy breezy. These are kids. They are looking at this differently than the organization is and the organization should bend their thinking in that direction. This is how the kids in band and the parents, friends and family members all view it: One organization, (one unit) that the band is a party to or signed up with, however you phrase it, and they compete in that organization's tournaments week to week by that organization's choice of judges. It is viewed simply and innocently that way and rightfully so. And being such, scores are expected to go up.......NOT PLACEMENT, mind you. I do not care if 89 wins Sweeps one week and the next week the same band gets 94 and places 6th. That's cool! All bands improve from week to week and the scores should reflect that.
And if a band has a low score from the week before, aren't I going to have an opinion about that band before they even play one note?
Nope....if you don't know what that other judges 80 means to that judge, then you don't have an opinion one way or the other. You just have a marker to go by to ensure a higher score, albeit, the score may be higher by .01 or maybe 1.3....just make sure it's higher (go by your marker.)
These are high school kids. Why are they being asked to "think about it this way" when it is a natural instinct to initially think that the scores go up as the weeks progress? .
Doesn't seem fair, somehow. We all have bad performances.
It is so rare that a band's performance goes down as the season goes on. It may stay the same or only incease by a hair but go down??? I don't think so.
Re judges who haven't worked with competing bands:
If you're good enough to become a judge, you work with a lot of bands, period. Should a judge be someone who never leaves their own band program?
At champions in SD, there was a judge there from another state, Texas, I believe. If you think there aren't people on the panel who are a bit bias, you are kiddin' yourself............welcome to the world of politics....it's everywhere you look nowadays!
SCSBOA already has a VERY firm policy in place regarding ethics in judging. I can't remember the exact policy, but there is a time frame in which you cannot judge a band you have worked with.
At some point we have to trust that people will do the right thing.
Scoring matters.........heck, you don't get a metal without the highest score, right? Everyone wants that darn metal that everyone says is not really what is important.?????????????????? Arghhhhhhhhh!
I'd rather go from 6th to 4th and have my score drop then get that metal. Cuz it felt good to know that my band worked hard enough to beat out those 2 other bands, even if our score went down, and even if it was just two bands. That told us right there that we improved. That our hard work paid off. Sure it wasn't what we were praying for, cuz like you said, everyone goes in hoping for 1st, but only one band can get it. And congratulations to them because they kick a**.
How do you know if judges are bias or not? How do you know if a judge goes in saying, oh I hate this band, last place for them. But then again how do I know they don't, right? Because this is the world of politics. No one knows for sure what goes on in those press boxes except for the judges themselves... and anyways, that's like a kid going to his mom and saying his grades are bad because the teacher hates him. Sure the judge might hate ya, but it's not his place to give your band a bad score just for that reason, just as your teacher's not gonna give ya a bad grade just because she hates ya.
If your whole season, your goal is to get that stupid metal, then man, ARGH to you!
I'm not after the medal.....that's a typical misconception.
Your season should be based on being your best. Having the best shows. Beating out that band that you've wanted to beat for almost ever! Placing higher then you ever thought possible. Not some stupid metal. Scores are what get you that metal, placing is what brings a smile to a kids face at compeitions. For a band to get 3rd a comp and then 2nd at the next, they jump up and scream and are happy because they went up. and then they might get 1st at the next comp, and then they jump up and yell and smile and some even cry. Not because of the score, but because they beat out all of the bands they were going up against and they felt happy.
How do you know they ACTUALLY REALLY TRULY beat out the other bands? And does it really matter, as you say? As you and other say, the judges are human........flawed...........and scoring flucuates and has not a shred of consistency for which to base improvement upon, which is, as I'm told, not the point. Why are you yelling and screaming and crying when you place first when you don't know if you really are first and deserve it based on your own words and assessment of the entire judging process???
It's about ranking so I take it, then, that each night's competition is being looked at as a whole and the judges have to decide who is best (highest ranking) for that competiton. Okay....makes sense. Now I get it. A band is not being scored on their own merit but instead they are being judged COMPARITIVELY that one night against the other bands in that division. Is that accurate? Thereby, the flucuation in the score number?
There is obviously a mind-set here and I can understand that mind-set.
I think my only comment is that it would still be nice and seemingly more sensical if scores went up from week to week. And I understand that that goes against the reasoning of the mind-set incorporated by the organization BUT the kids view the scores as a reflection of their improvement; regardless of what their directors tell them.
Quite frankly, a lot of the parents feel the same way. Call it human nature.....call it common sense. Oh, well, it is what it is and cannot be changed by me nor anyone else willing to voice their opinions.
I still think (as do many others) that Chino and RBV were ripped off at Championships............their rankings were dead wrong.......and that is not whining.....that is a band person who watched stating their opinion and judgement. Period. And anyone who criticizes that, should not be harsh in criticizing those of us who criticize the judging.
And if this has happened to you, then you know what it's like. And if you don't, then this is the feeling you should be working for. But I'm pretty sure that every band out there knows what it's like to beat out another band and just feel great about it.
Here's an example: Rancho Bernardo performed out of order at the Vista Tournament and were creamed by Rancho Buena Vista. Rancho Bernardo scoring 90 and Rancho Buena Vista scoring a 92. Everyone was floored. And most people's comments were that RB only lost to RBV because they played out of order so they could make it to their Home Coming. They performed after the 4a division and before the 5a. Should RBV be happy they beat out RB? Did RBV really do better than RB, who are known to be virtually flawless and haven't lost to RBV in years? I mean, RB did out rank RBV the following two weeks. I think anyone can say anything they want to say to explain this away but the minds of all are still puzzled and wondering.....therein lies the problem thus the controversy...................
It's the judges jobs to give you these placings and to help you..
placings don't help improve a band. I've seen bands improve tremendously, even more so than the other bands and place poorly the following week.
I don't understand that comment. How does placement help you when it's so different from week to week? You can improve tremendously but you are being "ranked," which means you are being compared to other bands in your division that night and the judges are saying, "You rank number whatever tonight." You are being compared to the other bands that night and ranked accordingly for just that evening. How does your ranking help improve you the next week? Doesn't make sense.
If it were their job to make everyone feel all horrible, then I'm pretty sure there'd be more of a discussion. And mistakes happen, but life goes on.
If all you think about is the score you get, and you get all pissed off when it goes down. Then geez, don't sit here complaining about, if you care so much about it, then you better be doing something to bring it back up instead of saying that it was wrong for it to go down, or it should've happened.[/quote]
That's the point.......BINGO!!! I've seen bands "do something about it." I've seen them critique the "rough" spots of their shows and greatly improve and it did nothing for them in regards to ranking or scoring. Thus, the controversy. Get it?
And for those of you who belittle the trophies.........GIVE ME A BREAK. Let's try and keep it honest and real, shall we??? If you or anyone for that matter, go to a competition, you ALWAYS hope to be the one who goes home with the big trophy. It's the "so-called" losers (never is there a loser in my mind) who always deemphasizes the love and desire of the trophy.
Let it be said that I'm not whining.....I'm sort of playing devil's advocate as well I can see both sides of the coin. Too bad both sides cannot come to a happy medium....I mean, this isn't major league baseball and the World Series for Pete's sake. It's H.S. marching band competition..........
Thanks to all the bands for a wonderful and highly enjoyable season.