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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:15 pm 
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Thanks for settimg things straight, Caleb. Congratulations to your band for great showing at the WBA Championships, but moreso congratulations to your band for a great season.

To Mission Viejo: AWESOME, AWESOME JOB! Congratulations on your winning your 2nd title.

To everyone else (finalists, non-finalists...heck, even bands from other judging associations): Thank you for help making this year of high school marching band in California one of the best ever. Keep raising the standard!

Enjoy the holidays, everyone!

Alan Irons
Fountain Valley High School Marching Band 1993-1996
Pacific Crest of Diamond Bar 1997
Nashua Spartans 1998-1999
UCSB Class of 2002


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 Post subject: Re: ayala got 3rd?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:30 am 
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First of all, there is an entirely different judging panel between prelims and finals. Scoring cannot be compared for this reason, and for the following: scores are determined after the first band. They are given a particular score, and this score is the "bar" so to speak. From that point on, every band's score is determined in relation to every other's, so that the spread is accurate to where they feel the bands fall. In other words, scores from contest to contest can't be compared, neither can prelims to finals. They are only useful within the same contest, because they are relative-based. That being said....


I am truly confused when anyone says Mission's show is boring.



1) Watch it from the front
2) Pay attention to the music book and the arrangements
3) Pay attention to the apparent simplicity in drill, which is in fact more complex than it looks.


With Ayala's show, it was entertaininng the first 2 times I saw it. Coming up on Championships I began to get bored. Let me clarify:

1) The main theme (taken from Erik Whittakker's October) is extremely simplistic in both melody and harmony (very similar to what modern rock/pop music uses)

--this in itself is not generally a problem, if you know how to revisit the theme without it ever sounding old.

2) repitition and variation in the arrangement did not succeed in masking the feeling of repetitiveness (it CAN be repetitive, but not FEEL repetitive -- see mission's music)

3) drill is no more difficult (at times much simpler) than mission's.

To put it simply, both VERY good bands, but Mission was just better (had a better book, etc...)


teddy graham wrote:
I was at championshipes this weekend at Buchanon. My band didnt make finals and I am a senior. So we stayed to watch the finals performance. I could not believe how beautiful ayala's show was.It was practically perfect!!! They sounded awesome and the drill was phenomenal. Their colorguard was incredible. It was such a clean show and the girls performed their asses off. I couldn't believe beyer's guard won. They didn't have as clean of a show as ayala. When it came around to awards, i thought for sure ayala would win. When I hear in 3rd place ayala, i was ready to go take the microphone and say thats not possible. :shock: :x !!!!! I looked at the recaps and my friend showed me ayala's guard caption. They got 4th!!!!! There is no way that mission and rancho cuc were better than them. In prelims their guard got a 92.00. At finals the judge gave them an 86.00. Someone told me that there is no possible way the guard could get an 86.00. Thats what they got at their first or second show. That judge should never be allowed to judge again. How do u drop a guard 6 points from prelims to finals. I heard the guard had an even better show at finals thean prelims. That caption was rigged and that judge should feel very stupid for doing that. The band had the best show their!!! To me mission's show is not very impressive and its kind of boring. I can't believe that they won. Clovis in my opinion was better than mission. My father is a director and knows a lot about this stuff and he said that ayala was the best band their. You can fight me on this as much as you want, but deep down i truely believe that guard should have won and band should have won. Some day when the ayala drumline puts their finals show on the website, maybe u guys should watch. Then maybe you will believe that they were the best band. Ayala u guys r the best and up here we know that. Great job and I hope you are as thrilled about your performnace as i was.It was all politics ayala. U r number 1!!!!!!


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 Post subject: not sure...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:53 pm 
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Well i understand with differnt judging panels and stuff but i will only say this sort of speech once...I look at our(Ayala) guard score from prelims to finals and can u explain to me how the numbers varried soooo much??? Go download our video from prelims and finals and tell me why we scored about the same, almost lower,score from our first show of thje season. Personaly i think there is a point in which you u make peoples scores differ....6 points in myyyy own opnion doesnt fit that rule..I'd like to see what u think about that one. Im not mad but more so confused as to how that can happen. But i am taking this as a learning experience and one i wish not to repeat but life goes on....Its JUST hs marching band....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:53 pm 
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Wow...What a weekend...but I do congratualate all the bands who got up and brought their show to the field on Saturday. I also want to send a thanks to our incrediable boosters who continualy show support in the activity we all love so much. I definitely think this year's finals was a great end to the season...and I'm not talking about who won...just the fact that 1st place was wide open..and there was such a diversity in the caption awards. All the bands in 4A really stepped up and aspired to be a great looking high school band.


Last edited by I'mOnMyDot! on Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:13 pm 
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im not gunna say all the replies apply to this but maybe the topic should be renamed to 'flames of the poor sports'

congratulations to all those who made finals. and before you write negative things about championships, i think you should put yourself in the perspective that not everyone was able to make finals. so maybe one shouldnt complain so much about placings as long as you had a great show and had a fun time ending the wba season


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 Post subject: Sorry everyone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:47 pm 
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I am sorry if I have a favorite band. All u people saying how wonderful mission is is just as bad as me. look, i am sure that to the judges mission show obviously was the best that night at finals. I don't think judges woud give it to someone who didn't deserve it. But I also do believe that judges do have their favorites and the bands they don't like too much. I am not even part of ayala so i am not be a poor sport os a sore loser, I am just stating my opinion. U may not agree with it, but thats life. I was just outraged to see the results of the colorguard placements. I have always liked their shows. I saw mission's guard and they were not nearly as clean as ayala. How they beat ayala makes me wonder. I have never heard of kathy whitcomb(the guard judge) but she must have been smoking rack when she gave them an 86.00 in 4th place. If u dont believe, do what the egg said and watch the video. Then maybe you will inderstand where I am coming from. Iam not alking much about the band. Mission's band is probably better than ayala's since they won. My friend is on colorguard and she told me all this stuff. So I think it sucks that the guard got placed so low with an almost perfect show. Once again, my apologies if I offended n e one or anything. Im not putting down anyone. Especially mission. I will admit their band was impressive. Everyone has their opinions about everyone's shows. I just expressed mine. I hope u understand where i am coming from. Once again sorry for stirring up any heat.


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 Post subject: Re: Sorry everyone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:49 pm 
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teddy graham wrote:
I have never heard of kathy whitcomb(the guard judge) but she must have been smoking rack when she gave them an 86.00 in 4th place.


maybe you never realized who judged the previous shows this year or maybe never paid much attention to previous score sheets. shirley and kathy whitcomb are not new judges. theyve seen the bands throughout the season, i believe most of the judges rotate from northern and southern california wba tournaments. they judge wba every saturday in the season. theyve been there for as long as ive known about wba


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:56 pm 
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i honestly am amazed. Here at ayala, we put out a great show. Everything was magnificent in my opinion. When they announced 3rd place....Ayala high school, i was shocked. :drop: And now, i have come to realize that it is not the end of the world. I think that if mission beat us, then mission beat us. While leaving the stands, i was shakin a few hands of the ppl from upland saying good job, see you next year, and stuff like that. "it is more fun competing against friends than enemies" <mark stone> and i couldn't agree more. i thank all of u for the support and motivation. all i need to say is it will be a very competitive year next season :jedi:. congratulations mission and everyone. see you next season. o ya.....about the guard, this is what i think about it. :think:


Last edited by AHS CLaRiNeT 06 on Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:39 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:56 pm 
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all i can say is... go to ayaladrumline.com in a day or so... and u can be the judge on who was better.










Ryan Anderson
ryantenors@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:30 am 
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ryantenors wrote:
all i can say is... go to ayaladrumline.com in a day or so... and u can be the judge on who was better.

Ryan Anderson
ryantenors@yahoo.com


exactly what are you posting?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:46 am 
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Isn’t it amazing! Every year we see postings about being “shocked” at the Championship results. When are you kids going to realize that while it is exciting to win a competition, it is not about competing with each other but COMPETING TO A STANDARD so stop complaining and learn from the experience. I believe the standard of all the bands competing was higher than ever this year and every band should be proud of their achievement no matter where they were placed in the competition.


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 Post subject: Re: Sorry everyone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:04 am 
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Tyler wrote:
teddy graham wrote:
I have never heard of kathy whitcomb(the guard judge) but she must have been smoking rack when she gave them an 86.00 in 4th place.


maybe you never realized who judged the previous shows this year or maybe never paid much attention to previous score sheets. shirley and kathy whitcomb are not new judges. theyve seen the bands throughout the season, i believe most of the judges rotate from northern and southern california wba tournaments. they judge wba every saturday in the season. theyve been there for as long as ive known about wba


The Whitcombs have been very involved and instrumental in the development of the pageantry arts in California for a very long time. Not only have they been involved with WSMBC/WBA, but WGI as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:00 am 
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Okay folks, enough is enough. WBA Championships was an incredible event with many wonderful performances. My sincere thanks to all of those people that support the Ayala Band and Color guard but the show is over, the scores are in, and the trophies have been awarded. No good will come of this debate. WBA judges are of the highest quality and do a great job at a difficult task. All the programs that participated should be proud of their accomplishments and spend many years telling and re-living the experience, but the season is done. Please keep in mind that it is not about winning, but competing well, and this thread is not part of ‘competing well’. It is now time to move on into our ‘second semester’ ensembles and begin the planning for next years marching season.

Congratulations to Valley Christian (A/AA Champions) and Mission Viejo (AAA/AAAA Champions)!

PS. To Mr. Wunderlich-only the Ayala show will be posted on the ayaladrumline website, and that is only if this thread dies.

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 Post subject: finally...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:26 pm 
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Well said, Mr. Stone! This is getting old...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:54 pm 
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jimwunderlich wrote:
ryantenors wrote:
all i can say is... go to ayaladrumline.com in a day or so... and u can be the judge on who was better.

Ryan Anderson
ryantenors@yahoo.com


exactly what are you posting?


ayalas show


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