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 Post subject: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:25 am 
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There are options here. To compete or not to compete. Most host bands perform at the end of their show to fill up some of the dead time while the tabulators are figuring out who gets the trophies. This of course would not matter if the host band was actually competing.

By competing, I mean being eligible for trophies/awards at your own event.
I know of very few schools that take home trophies from their own event.

I think the phrase scored exhibition works pretty well to describe what most bands do. Everyone who is trying to qualify for a championship needs a score. I think that host bands usually score a little lower at their own events because of all the work they have to do and the distractions of hosting.

Bands could:
1) perform with no score or comments from the judges
2) perform for comments only
3) perform for a score - not involved in placement
4) perform for a score and compete with the other bands

Again, I think most bands choose option 3


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:36 am 
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What do you think about a band using their exhibition score to get into the championships? There is at least one band who only competed in three BOAS-qualifying comps and used their exhibition score as one of their top three scores.


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:07 am 
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bands who are trying to make championships AND host a show would be at a huge disadvantage to bands who dont ever host a show -- IF you didnt allow the host to perform for a score that counted towards championships.

bands should not be punished for hosting a show. their scores should count on the grid for their home show. HOWEVER... i will say it is tacky for a band to compete for their own trophies. ive never seen that be done in scsboa. and, i think the other circuits provide their own trophies/judges/rules etc and simply use the schools as a site. im okay with that. as long as a band isnt receiving trophies that they created.


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:27 pm 
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cup_o_noodles007 wrote:
bands who are trying to make championships AND host a show would be at a huge disadvantage to bands who dont ever host a show -- IF you didnt allow the host to perform for a score that counted towards championships.

bands should not be punished for hosting a show. their scores should count on the grid for their home show. HOWEVER... i will say it is tacky for a band to compete for their own trophies. ive never seen that be done in scsboa. and, i think the other circuits provide their own trophies/judges/rules etc and simply use the schools as a site. im okay with that. as long as a band isnt receiving trophies that they created.

Why is it tacky? When people say "judged exhibition", which is an oxymoron, aren't bands competing anyways. That score may or may not count at the end of the season, but it still is in direct competition with every band in their class. I personally don't see anything wrong with a band who wants that score to count to compete.

I don't see hosting a show as a "disadvantage" either, especially when a band is reaping the rewards for their hard work. I say either compete or don't compete...I don't like gray areas. Its like we are not competing at our show for trophies because it's tacky but we'll take our score and use it nonetheless . I don't get it, and that's just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:55 pm 
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SuperAction80 wrote:
cup_o_noodles007 wrote:
bands who are trying to make championships AND host a show would be at a huge disadvantage to bands who dont ever host a show -- IF you didnt allow the host to perform for a score that counted towards championships.

bands should not be punished for hosting a show. their scores should count on the grid for their home show. HOWEVER... i will say it is tacky for a band to compete for their own trophies. ive never seen that be done in scsboa. and, i think the other circuits provide their own trophies/judges/rules etc and simply use the schools as a site. im okay with that. as long as a band isnt receiving trophies that they created.

Why is it tacky? When people say "judged exhibition", which is an oxymoron, aren't bands competing anyways. That score may or may not count at the end of the season, but it still is in direct competition with every band in their class. I personally don't see anything wrong with a band who wants that score to count to compete.

I don't see hosting a show as a "disadvantage" either, especially when a band is reaping the rewards for their hard work. I say either compete or don't compete...I don't like gray areas. Its like we are not competing at our show for trophies because it's tacky but we'll take our score and use it nonetheless . I don't get it, and that's just my opinion.

While this may not be something that happens out in CA, in most of the Midwest and South, it is not uncommon for the host Band to compete in the contest, especially if the nearest other contests are over 75 miles away or a very sparse number of events exist to compete in. In Nebraska, SD, KS, OK and MO among others the Host Band competes because there are very short marching seasons and also because their are no close contest to attend on another weekend. It may be different, however most of the guest Bands have no problem with the Host Bands competing because often they are in the same situation of being in rural areas away from large populated areas which have most of the contests.

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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:36 pm 
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SuperAction80 wrote:
Why is it tacky? When people say "judged exhibition", which is an oxymoron, aren't bands competing anyways. That score may or may not count at the end of the season, but it still is in direct competition with every band in their class. I personally don't see anything wrong with a band who wants that score to count to compete.

I don't see hosting a show as a "disadvantage" either, especially when a band is reaping the rewards for their hard work. I say either compete or don't compete...I don't like gray areas. Its like we are not competing at our show for trophies because it's tacky but we'll take our score and use it nonetheless . I don't get it, and that's just my opinion.



because bands hosting shows later in the season wouldnt get the higher numbers for their work from that week that they rehearsed for. ive taught bands that missed championships by less than a point. it would encourage bands NOT to host because they would risk missing out on their season finale. it really is pretty logical...

and its tacky because you shouldnt be receiving awards that you made to give out for your own field tournament. its like an organization wasting money to give itself an award. its tacky, and, doesnt make sense financially to do that. but like i said, its contingent on how the associations work. if SCSBOA suddenly said 'we are going to provide all the awards, not the hosts,' then the situation changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:24 pm 
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So you're saying there are no other shows to compete at the last week other than the show that band is hosting? I don't buy it. There are shows going on all week the last week before the deadline...So if a director thinks its "tacky' and chooses not to compete, there are options to get that last score.

Also you say if an association/circuit purchases the awards and mandates the show then you see it's alright for a host band to compete.

However if a band hosts the show, pays for their awards then it's tacky to to compete for a trophy. So based on your argument, since the host band is paying for the judges couldn't it be seen as tacky to take the score also.

High school sports host tournaments, meets and competitions all the time, pay for the trophies and compete in them. Many times winning them too. I've yet to hear the word "tacky"...Many believe Marching Band is a sport...so....

Many bands host fundraisers on Saturdays so can they bring in judges, perform a show exactly to standard with judges from their circuit/association for a score? Of course not and they would get a resounding NO WAY!

My philosophy is ..you want the score, then compete for it...


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:18 pm 
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because a lot of bands cant do mid-week shows. plain and simple. and if bands wanted to compete that last weekend for a number, there would be no competitions to go to. see the problem?

as far as tacky to take the judges number, no. its not. SCSBOA rules says that for a host bands number to count they must still perform within the division. you arent paying for the score, youre paying for the judges to be there. with a trophy its different -- you buy the trophies and perform in the division to one of them anyways no matter what you do? its stupid to do, and a waste of money (the kids money) for the host. getting a trophy for hosting a show is like being the guy at the party who cant stop talking about how great he thinks he is.

and as far as sports goes, thats a completely different scenario and you know it. those are about (mostly) one-on-one competition and no one gets an award at the end of a football game. those also are not judged events mostly -- they are about numerical, physical achievement. distance, speed, time, etc. and even at that, sports teams operate on a clearly different set of standards. they also trash talk, slap eachother on the butt, and spit all over the place. should band do that also?

its also a completely different scenario hosting a competition and paying an entire judging panel to show up for just your band. kind of a pointless argument there...


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 Post subject: Re: Competing at your own show.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:27 am 
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I think it is time to close this thread. The fact is that competitions are almost all done all over the nation and the fact is that competing in an event you host has many sides, both positive and negative. I think that Bands that know the host Band is going to compete or be scored, can decide if they want to compete with the host school.

In states with Region and Area Contests, the host Band has to compete with the rest of the Bands because the association or state group handling the competition mandates it. We could go on to eternity with this topic, but the fact is that the season is over. Bring it up again in Aug when you start deciding what contests you want to attend during the fall.

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