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 Post subject: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:58 pm 
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This is my attempt to compare and adjust scores from competition to competition to create an overall ranking of the competitive environment.

BANDS WILL NOT BE RANKED UNTIL THEY HAVE COMPETED

The sports polls for colleges do a Top 25, so that's what I will do, too.

2011 NCBA PARADE RANKINGS AS OF 10/17/11
1. Golden Valley H.S., Merced, CA
2. Merced H.S., Merced, CA
3. Benicia H.S., Benicia, CA
4. Armijo H.S., Fairfield, CA
5. Vanden H.S., Fairfield, CA
6. Concord H.S., Concord, CA
7. Fairfield H.S., Fairfield, CA
8. Las Plumas/Oroville H.S., Oroville, CA
9. Homestead H.S., Cupertino, CA
10t. Buhach Colony H.S., Atwater, CA
10t. Franklin H.S., Elk Grove, CA
12. Foothill H.S., Pleasanton, CA
13. Angelo Rodriguez H.S., Fairfield, CA
14. Atwater H.S., Atwater, CA
15. Irvington H.S., Fremont, CA
16t. Cesar Chavez H.S., Stockton, CA
16t. Granada H.S., Livermore, CA
18. Livingston H.S., Livingston, CA
19. Jesse Bethel H.S., Vallejo, CA
20. Fremont H.S., Sunnyvale, CA
21. John Pitman H.S., Turlock, CA
22. San Benito H.S., Hollister, CA
23. Washington Union H.S., Fresno, CA
24. Archbishop Riordan H.S., San Francisco, CA
25. Mission San Jose H.S., Fremont, CA


2011 NCBA FIELD RANKINGS AS OF 10/17/11
1. Homestead H.S., Cupertino, CA
2. Saratoga H.S., Saratoga, CA
3t. Granite Bay H.S., Granite Bay, CA
3t. Robert McQueen H.S., Reno, NV
5. Leigh H.S., San Jose, CA
6. Mountain View H.S., Mountain View, CA
7. Foothill H.S., Pleasanton, CA
8. Lynbrook H.S., San Jose, CA
9. Fremont H.S., Sunnyvale, CA
10. Los Gatos H.S., Los Gatos, CA
11. Bella Vista H.S., Fair Oaks, CA
12. Branham H.S., San Jose, CA
13t. Cupertino H.S., Cupertino, CA
13t. Damonte Ranch H.S., Reno, NV
15. Douglas H.S., Minden, NV
16. Angelo Rodriguez H.S., Fairfield, CA
17. Milpitas H.S., Milpitas, CA
18. Timberline H.S., Boise, ID
19. Santa Teresa H.S., San Jose, CA
20. Ponderosa H.S., Shingle Springs, CA
21. Folsom H.S., Folsom, CA
22. Vintage H.S., Napa, CA
23. Santa Clara H.S., Santa Clara, CA
24. American H.S., Fremont, CA
25. Dublin H.S., Dublin, CA


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Gosh darnit....all I can say is THANK YOU!! Appreciate the time and work.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:01 am 
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You're welcome!


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:03 am 
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After witnessing from next to the judges stand: the Santa Cruz, Cupertino, Del Mar, Foothill, and YouTube vids of Del Oro Band Reviews, this is my Top 10.

1.) Golden Valley*
1.) Benicia*
3.) Merced
4.) Fairfield
5.) Armijo
6.) Franklin (Elk Grove)
6.) Vanden*
7.) Foothill*
7.) Las Plumas / Oroville
10.) Rodriguez

*Have yet to see these schools compete against each other, and so placing one over the other wouldn't show one is greater than the other, it would just reflect average score.

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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:42 am 
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Bakensobek707 wrote:
After witnessing from next to the judges stand: the Santa Cruz, Cupertino, Del Mar, Foothill, and YouTube vids of Del Oro Band Reviews, this is my Top 10.

1.) Golden Valley*
1.) Benicia*
3.) Merced
4.) Fairfield
5.) Armijo
6.) Franklin (Elk Grove)
6.) Vanden*
7.) Foothill*
7.) Las Plumas / Oroville
10.) Rodriguez

*Have yet to see these schools compete against each other, and so placing one over the other wouldn't show one is greater than the other, it would just reflect average score.


Is it just me, or has there been a rise in the overall talent and performance level of ALOT of groups on the street in NCBA. Good stuff good stuff......


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:02 am 
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snareguy83 wrote:
Is it just me, or has there been a rise in the overall talent and performance level of ALOT of groups on the street in NCBA.

I'll be blunt: it's just you. The scores are bloated and bands with good guards are getting rewarded in marching and music (!!) because of it. I watched the Santa Cruz videos and was horrified: there were maybe three good bands, and several of the top scoring bands were absolutely atrocious.

In the late 90s and early 00s had a far, far greater number of good bands. Russ Campbell at Fairfield, Bob Moorefield at Foothill, Roxanna Macheel at Benicia, Chad Humpal at Antioch, Dennis Reese at Laguna Creek, Kris Harper at Livermore, Merlin Chestnut at Vallejo, etc.

Needless to say I disagree with Bakens' Top 10. Heck, personally I disagree with my own rankings (since all they are based on is the judges scores and show variances).


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
snareguy83 wrote:
Is it just me, or has there been a rise in the overall talent and performance level of ALOT of groups on the street in NCBA.

I'll be blunt: it's just you. The scores are bloated and bands with good guards are getting rewarded in marching and music (!!) because of it. I watched the Santa Cruz videos and was horrified: there were maybe three good bands, and several of the top scoring bands were absolutely atrocious.

In the late 90s and early 00s had a far, far greater number of good bands. Russ Campbell at Fairfield, Bob Moorefield at Foothill, Roxanna Macheel at Benicia, Chad Humpal at Antioch, Dennis Reese at Laguna Creek, Kris Harper at Livermore, Merlin Chestnut at Vallejo, etc.

Needless to say I disagree with Bakens' Top 10. Heck, personally I disagree with my own rankings (since all they are based on is the judges scores and show variances).


Hey, my feelings are hurt!! :rotf: Nice rage...nice :bow: So we have tenacity for accuracy and now...Passion for expression of opinion. NICE.


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Psalm 56 wrote:
Hey, my feelings are hurt!! :rotf: Nice rage...nice :bow: So we have tenacity for accuracy and now...Passion for expression of opinion. NICE.

LOL. I didn't list Paul Everts at Granite Bay, because Granite Bay didn't suffer a drastic drop off after you left. I even debated including Benicia for that same reason; they've dropped off the least of all the groups I've listed, Patrick Martin's doing a good job.

My rankings are pure statistics based off the judge's scores. My opinion is often quite different from the NCBA judges. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:21 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
Psalm 56 wrote:
Hey, my feelings are hurt!! :rotf: Nice rage...nice :bow: So we have tenacity for accuracy and now...Passion for expression of opinion. NICE.

LOL. I didn't list Paul Everts at Granite Bay, because Granite Bay didn't suffer a drastic drop off after you left. I even debated including Benicia for that same reason; they've dropped off the least of all the groups I've listed, Patrick Martin's doing a good job.

My rankings are pure statistics based off the judge's scores. My opinion is often quite different from the NCBA judges. 8-)


You're a DORK :nenr: Of course a dork in a nice way. Thanks Hostrauser....Feelin' the love :rotf:
I am thrilled to see Lynn has taken GBHS to the next level. She is blessed to be there. Me?! I am blessed to be where I am at too...just need others (uh-hum...)to know that too :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Interesting interesting....so who would be your "fantasy top 10" Host......?


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:58 pm 
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I will probably make a nice long post regarding *MY* Top 10 in each circuit at the end of the season. You'll have to wait until then. :D


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:26 am 
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Hostrauser wrote:
snareguy83 wrote:
Is it just me, or has there been a rise in the overall talent and performance level of ALOT of groups on the street in NCBA.

I'll be blunt: it's just you. The scores are bloated and bands with good guards are getting rewarded in marching and music (!!) because of it. I watched the Santa Cruz videos and was horrified: there were maybe three good bands, and several of the top scoring bands were absolutely atrocious.

In the late 90s and early 00s had a far, far greater number of good bands. Russ Campbell at Fairfield, Bob Moorefield at Foothill, Roxanna Macheel at Benicia, Chad Humpal at Antioch, Dennis Reese at Laguna Creek, Kris Harper at Livermore, Merlin Chestnut at Vallejo, etc.

I must say, marching under Roxanna Macheel was a terrifying yet rewarding experience! Too bad she went into retirement :(

Needless to say I disagree with Bakens' Top 10. Heck, personally I disagree with my own rankings (since all they are based on is the judges scores and show variances).


Another reason why NCBA isn't the greatest as far as show judging goes. I have had experiences of judges "boxing out" their score because they "think" no other group can come near the talent of the group that just went. Also, school size has little effect on the talent of the band, so why categorize students as such? I remember when line-ups used to be by average score. At least this way, bands would somewhat be placed with other schools of matching caliber. Another issue I have is judge bias. Too often have I listened to judges tapes (even in SCSBOA) where the judges don't give much help to improve the group, yet place them really low in rankings. Where is the sense of that? All in all, I feel that there are too many factors that exist that prevents a "clean" score per review. No system is perfect, but at least it's something to enjoy yourself with while you are in the program.

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BHS Hawaii Invitational Spring 08
CSU Long Beach School of Biology w/ option in Premed
CSU Long Beach Bachelors in Music w/ option in Composition


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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:54 am 
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Hostrauser wrote:
Psalm 56 wrote:
Hey, my feelings are hurt!! :rotf: Nice rage...nice :bow: So we have tenacity for accuracy and now...Passion for expression of opinion. NICE.

LOL. I didn't list Paul Everts at Granite Bay, because Granite Bay didn't suffer a drastic drop off after you left. I even debated including Benicia for that same reason; they've dropped off the least of all the groups I've listed, Patrick Martin's doing a good job.

My rankings are pure statistics based off the judge's scores. My opinion is often quite different from the NCBA judges. 8-)


IMO, Foothill declined before moorefield even left and it's slowly been professing since then.

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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:51 am 
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Let me just say that a good guard will enhance a marching score due the inherent addition of "exposure to error" they add. If you show a visual (marching) judge more, done well, you will be rewarded. Of course, if it is not done well, well all the exposure (to error) in the world will not help.

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 Post subject: Re: NCBA Rankings, Week 3 (10/17/11)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:17 am 
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I'll just say with regards to NCBA bands, yes the auxiliary units do tend to enhance bands' overall scores, big time. It almost seems as if the "showmanship" caption in a band's score should be renamed "Auxiliary" and be worth 500 points, music should be worth 300 points and marching 200. To me, it appears this way, from BOTH watching these groups in person and on video. There is nothing negative that I'll say about this. It's just the way NCBA operates and does things up north and what I'm saying is simply my personal observations. SCSBOA has a way different set of rules and standards and so do many other music organizations and circuits out there. And as someone mentioned, no one organization is perfect either. From my times going up there, I have truly enjoyed the performances of not just the top bands, but all bands in general, it's nice to see what they have to offer.

-Luis


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